Question:
Which one is better?
In my understanding, an attenuator puts a choke on your total volume, but still lets you crank your natural amp volume to get that driven tube tone.
But if I can have a full isolation cabinet, is that a good idea? Better than an attenuator?
Answer:
Depends on your needs. An attentuator is great to give volume control for causal playing. An iso cab is a bit more extreme, for stages where you only want to hear the amp through the monitors. I think an attentuator is an all-around good tool, and would be useful to most guitarists, while an iso cab is much more specialized.
Answer:
I'm with Rainer on this.
an iso-cab is probably a much better tool for recording, but if you need cranked tube tone in a live setting, don't have a lot of room for volume, and also need to use your amp as a monitor (which is often the situation) then attenuator seems to be the way to go.
Answer:
I don't know about you but I sometimes need to fiddle with my amp knobs during the worship service. Particularly when the sanctuary is full and there are many people singing & clapping the overall sound gets louder and I may need to actually raise the volume at some point & lower it back down when we get to a softer part of the set. I use a volume pedal but when the pedal is to the metal you gotta go to the amp volume knob. That is what would concern me about an isolation cabinet... that and the fact that the cabinet itself can have an effect on the way the speaker acts. I like the MT attenuator on my Classic 30.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Dbmaj7 I don't know about you but I sometimes need to fiddle with my amp knobs during the worship service. Particularly when the sanctuary is full and there are many people singing & clapping the overall sound gets louder and I may need to actually raise the volume at some point & lower it back down when we get to a softer part of the set. I use a volume pedal but when the pedal is to the metal you gotta go to the amp volume knob. That is what would concern me about an isolation cabinet... that and the fact that the cabinet itself can have an effect on the way the speaker acts. I like the MT attenuator on my Classic 30. if you're running an iso-cab though, you'd hope that the sound guy would be able to see you trying to tell him to turn you up in the monitor mix.
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve I'm with Rainer on this.
an iso-cab is probably a much better tool for recording, but if you need cranked tube tone in a live setting, don't have a lot of room for volume, and also need to use your amp as a monitor (which is often the situation) then attenuator seems to be the way to go. I don't see the iso-cab necessarily being a better tool for recording by any means.
The attenuator and the iso cab both attempt to give you cranked tone at moderate or low volumes, which is important when playing live, as a low stage volume allows for a much cleaner sound in the house. In the studio, however, you are able to crank your amp as necessary to get the tone you desire. An iso cab in the studio would actually be detremental to the process as you need to be able to hear the sound coming directly from the speaker, and also to be able to make full use of different mic'ing techniques (ribbon mics, mics at a distance, etc)
Answer:
Originally Posted by Hellfighter I don't see the iso-cab necessarily being a better tool for recording by any means.
The attenuator and the iso cab both attempt to give you cranked tone at moderate or low volumes, which is important when playing live, as a low stage volume allows for a much cleaner sound in the house. In the studio, however, you are able to crank your amp as necessary to get the tone you desire. An iso cab in the studio would actually be detremental to the process as you need to be able to hear the sound coming directly from the speaker, and also to be able to make full use of different mic'ing techniques (ribbon mics, mics at a distance, etc) if you're running a studio setup like that, yeah, an iso-cab doesn't help. however if you're me, and you're recording in your bedroom, an attenuator isn't going to cut the signal enough to get the desired tone. this is where the iso-cab would come in.
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve if you're running an iso-cab though, you'd hope that the sound guy would be able to see you trying to tell him to turn you up in the monitor mix.
My amp is the monitor for my guitar so I don't have any of that in my monitor mix. I think if I'm trying to signal the sound guy to change the monitor mix during worship I'm probably going to be a distraction to worship. It depends on how attentive the sound person is at the time... I wouldn't count on it though.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Dbmaj7 It depends on how attentive the sound person is at the time... I wouldn't count on it though. this is the key. an attentive sound person will be looking for things like this...well...theoretically it's all taken care of ahead of time anyway.
iso-cab vs. attenuator in a live situation is really going to boil down to situational circumstances. there are a few guys on CGR who are playing with cabs in rooms behind the stage that are mic'd...essentially iso-cabs, and they only hear themselves in the mix.
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve there are a few guys on CGR who are playing with cabs in rooms behind the stage that are mic'd...essentially iso-cabs, and they only hear themselves in the mix.
I would be one of those guys.
From the guitarist perspective it's not the greatest set up. I like to feel my amp behind me and I play more comfortable that way. I think you can dial in on dynamics (I hope that explains what I'm trying to say) better that way.
As far as everyone else on stage, everyone listening, and the sound man are concerned, it's probably better that my cab (actually I'm using a combo right now) be back stage.
It's a bit more painful for me right now cause I'm using a combo amp so the only thing I have control of is my guitar and my pedals.
Also, if you go this route I think it's imperative that you make sure that the tone that the audience is hearing is what you want it to be. You can do this one of two ways:
(1) Get someone that knows what they are doing and knows the sound you're after to get out in the auditorium (or whatever) and help you dial in your sound. The amp is going to have to be tweaked for isolation situations.
or
(2) Get someone who can play the guitar like you to play it while you tweak everything yourself. This is the best method, imo.
Answer:
Originally Posted by BamaBleach I would be one of those guys.
From the guitarist perspective it's not the greatest set up. I like to feel my amp behind me and I play more comfortable that way. I think you can dial in on dynamics (I hope that explains what I'm trying to say) better that way.
As far as everyone else on stage, everyone listening, and the sound man are concerned, it's probably better that my cab (actually I'm using a combo right now) be back stage.
It's a bit more painful for me right now cause I'm using a combo amp so the only thing I have control of is my guitar and my pedals.
Also, if you go this route I think it's imperative that you make sure that the tone that the audience is hearing is what you want it to be. You can do this one of two ways:
(1) Get someone that knows what they are doing and knows the sound you're after to get out in the auditorium (or whatever) and help you dial in your sound. The amp is going to have to be tweaked for isolation situations.
or
(2) Get someone who can play the guitar like you to play it while you tweak everything yourself. This is the best method, imo. ...or go to the amp and tune it going straight in while you are in the separate room with it, then walk out on stage and play. This works fine, it's what I do (we use IEM's w/ molds so you hear almost no stage noise.)
Answer:
But for me, that not an option, I may change settings a lot from song to song when I play.
Answer:
Interesting responses - I got the idea from the David Crowder guitarist, who says on his site he always isolates live. He also mentions it might seem frustrating at first, but to keep trying.
Answer:
Originally Posted by niangelo Interesting responses - I got the idea from the David Crowder guitarist, who says on his site he always isolates live. He also mentions it might seem frustrating at first, but to keep trying.
Interesting... When I saw them a couple years back, I kinda looked at his rig - couldn't see it real well without going on stage, but it looked like just like a normal set up. I wonder if he just runs a long cable out to an external speaker cab backstage or wherever.
If you are doing the iso cab thing, there's no reason not to use a 50 foot speaker cord out the back of the amp to the remote cab, and keep the amp next to you for tweaking.