Question:
Ok...here's the deal...
I have two speakers...one is a Fender Gold Label (from my HRDlx) and a Jensen-type speaker (currently installed in the HRDlx). I know that the Fender is a 50W speaker (based on Fender's specs.) but I'm wondering if there's a way I an determine the wattage rating of the Jensen. I'm selling the HRDlx and would like to keep the lower wattage of the two to match to a low output tube head in the future.
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Without a model or serial number there's not just some magic way to determine what wattage the speaker is rated at. Even knowing what wattage of amp it came out of doesn't really help since, as you can tell by your Hot Rod Deluxe, the speaker is often rated higher than your amp's advertised wattage. If you know what make, model and age amp the Jensen came out of you might be able to figure it out.
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Originally Posted by Brent Without a model or serial number there's not just some magic way to determine what wattage the speaker is rated at. Even knowing what wattage of amp it came out of doesn't really help since, as you can tell by your Hot Rod Deluxe, the speaker is often rated higher than your amp's advertised wattage. If you know what make, model and age amp the Jensen came out of you might be able to figure it out. i have all of the serials on the speaker itself, but i couldn't find any info on them. it does have a smaller and lighter voice coil than the fender...any relationship there?
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Yeah I'd think the Jencen is at least 50w, if not more. Is the speaker still made? If so you might be able to find some info on their site or if they have discussion forums, could ask there.
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Originally Posted by Building429_Boy Yeah I'd think the Jencen is at least 50w, if not more. Is the speaker still made? If so you might be able to find some info on their site or if they have discussion forums, could ask there. i'm not even 100% sure it's a Jensen. i bought it from ebay for $30...it's just got that square coil Jensen design. I haven't been able to match any of the serials on any site...
what makes you think it's at least 50W?
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Originally Posted by thesteve i'm not even 100% sure it's a Jensen. i bought it from ebay for $30...it's just got that square coil Jensen design. I haven't been able to match any of the serials on any site...
what makes you think it's at least 50W?
Your HR Dlx is 40w correct? Like Brent said, speakers are always rated at a higher wattage than the amp, unless you want to hurt the speaker. So it's most likely that it's at least 50w. Is there any indication of it's brand other than the serial #'s?
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Originally Posted by Building429_Boy Your HR Dlx is 40w correct? Like Brent said, speakers are always rated at a higher wattage than the amp, unless you want to hurt the speaker. So it's most likely that it's at least 50w. Is there any indication of it's brand other than the serial #'s? the HRDlx is 40w, and Brent's statement is true for STOCK speakers...the speaker i have in there is aftermarket which is why i'm not sure of the wattage...and no...i haven't found any indications other than the design
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Originally Posted by thesteve i'm not even 100% sure it's a Jensen. i bought it from ebay for $30...it's just got that square coil Jensen design. I haven't been able to match any of the serials on any site...
what makes you think it's at least 50W?
Do you mean an Alnico magnet, or one of the old square ceramic magnets? Speakers from years ago like the 50's, 60's and 70's weren't generally rated as high as modern stuff which often employ things like aluminum voice coils to dissipate heat, squarish shaped coil wire, etc. Alnico speakers pretty much disappeared after the after the early 70's maybe (?) until the "everything vintage is wonderful" craze that started in the 90's brought 'em back. I think that was due to mf'g issues, either hazardous conditions that forced the manufacture of them overseas, or the price of the metals used or both. I read once that Alnico magnets generally come from China these days....Anyway, if its an alnico, more than likely its either pretty old, or relatively new - and to boot, much of the new "vintage" stuff is s'posed to be modeled after the old.
As far as wattege, I'd rate it conservatively. Here's what's important with regard to speaker wattage - its not so much the wattage rating of the amp and speaker, but the type (clean, mild OD, distortion, metal dist) of "signal" hitting the speaker. You can explode a vastly under-pwered voice coil with an instantaneous peak - say a 5 watt speaker with a 100 watt amp, but generally with a speaker its more of a heat dissipation issue. Think "duty cycle" not watts per se.
As an example, say a 100 watt clean amp played clean thru a 50 watt speaker. The peaks of that clean, spikey-enveloped signal may well be at the 100 watt or greater mark, but that's only for a split second, the valleys are very low. Just average playing may only yield a duty cycle or average wattage of maybe like 15 or 20. What I mean by duty cycle is that after that initial peak of a note, there is cool down time for the poor voice coil, even though we might be measuring that cool down in fractions of a second. Now, put the heavy mega distortion on, and this time use a 50 watt amp. The original guitar's ADSR envelope peaks are squashed down, and the "valleys" are much higher. Instead of the envelope looking like a mountain range, now it more closely resembles the rolling topography of Oklahoma. Now you have a much higher duty cycle; the peaks may be around the 50 watt mark, but the what used to be the valleys aren't far behind. Net result is no real cool down time, and maybe a 40 watt average, a much higher duty cycle from an amp that's got half the power. The heat builds up - may take a few minutes or an hour or two, but the magnet structure starts to heat up - thats part of the heat dissipation scheme of a speaker. The hotter it gets, the less dissipation. It gets a little too hot, and the voice coil warps, or the winding blows.
OH yeah, one other thing - the lower the freq, the more power it takes to reproduce. A really bottom heavy tone will use more power than a thinner tone at the same apparent volume. More bottom = heavier duty cycle.
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Originally Posted by Major Tom Do you mean an Alnico magnet, or one of the old square ceramic magnets? Speakers from years ago like the 50's, 60's and 70's weren't generally rated as high as modern stuff which often employ things like aluminum voice coils to dissipate heat, squarish shaped coil wire, etc. Alnico speakers pretty much disappeared after the after the early 70's maybe (?) until the "everything vintage is wonderful" craze that started in the 90's brought 'em back. I think that was due to mf'g issues, either hazardous conditions that forced the manufacture of them overseas, or the price of the metals used or both. I read once that Alnico magnets generally come from China these days....Anyway, if its an alnico, more than likely its either pretty old, or relatively new - and to boot, much of the new "vintage" stuff is s'posed to be modeled after the old. it's supposed to be an Alnico magnet...it'd just got that typical Jensen box casing...like this

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Yeah, that's an alnico. They are a very strong magnet for their size, they really help keep the weight down for combos and cabs. They were really common from 50's I guess thru somewhere in the early 70's or so. Lots of speakers from lots of mfr's used them, including ones used in stereos, and other audio applications. The actual wattage rating could be anything, starting around 15.
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Originally Posted by Major Tom Yeah, that's an alnico. They are a very strong magnet for their size, they really help keep the weight down for combos and cabs. They were really common from 50's I guess thru somewhere in the early 70's or so. Lots of speakers from lots of mfr's used them, including ones used in stereos, and other audio applications. The actual wattage rating could be anything, starting around 15. just an update, I determined today (by looking at the speaker serials) that what I have is a Rola speaker...similar to this one...
I tried determining it's age, which is the difficult part...it looks really clean...a bit dusty, but clean...from it's serial number, 285928, I know that it's a Rola from the 28th week of 19x9. the site determines the wattage of their 1958 Rola (identical design to mine, but different numbers) as 25-30W...which will be better for what i want.
I just filled out an inquiry form at Celestion to hopefully get more info (Rola and Celestion were the same company...basically)
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why you selling your amp steve?
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Originally Posted by wesley7777 why you selling your amp steve? i don't really play guitar that much and i'd like to shrink and simplify my setup. I think i delved into this a little in my most recent post in my blog.
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an update...I got a response from Celestion...apparently since my speaker is a Rola and not a Celestion-Rola, it predates the records that Celestion keeps on their speakers...which means I think I'm stuck again.