Question:
looking for a pretty portable bass amp that's loud enough to be heard over 3 or 4 acoustic guitar (they're unmiced, btw) any louder than that and i'd mic the cab. needs good tone, i'd rather it didn't weigh over 40 lbs, like 50 about max. (those aren't set in stone.) pricewise, well, i'm open for options, heck i'm just seeing what around, but figure about $200. (also flexible)
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the Behringer BX1200 would probably get it done for you....weighs in at 49lbs.
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yeah, that's pretty close to what i'm after. i'd prefer lighter, but i lug my SX200 all over the church grounds, so it's not like i'm not used to that type of thing.
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Fender Rumble bass amp.
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so like how many watts should i be looking at getting?
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Originally Posted by What5647 so like how many watts should i be looking at getting? well my bass amp (Polytone101) is 130W and it'll blow 3 or 4 acoustics away easily
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but were will i be on the volume dial when playing with them? when i'm playing my sx200 in the same group the volume is very touchy since i've got it at about 1, with the guitar's volume way down. so basically i want to be high enough on the amps volume that there's an ease of adjustment. i'm not looking for the type of overkill i got with my guitar amp.
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Bass will be easier. The Behringers' volume knob isn't as touchy as the Carvin SX. I know what you man about hving to play at 1 with the guitar volume down. It has more to do with the volume knob sensitivity than anything.
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I'm not a big fan of Behringer gear . . . but finding much in that price range isnt easy. Look used as well.
Even if you're not going to be playing loud, you'll want an amp with at least 100 watts, or close to. Dont look for a practice amp, you will ultimately be disappointed in the sound. I would look at SWR if you can find one used . . . Fender and Peavey make good low priced Bass amps although I'm not a big fan of their sound.
And, you wont want to mic a bass amp, you'll want to DI it. Some bass amps have line outs for this purpose.
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you don't mic them? i have zilch exp in mixing bass, all the times i've run sound w/a bass player he just ran through his amp. i take it it's a freq response with the mic sorta thing?
anyway, the big question was how many watts were needed. and i've used dome bearinger sound gear before, never had a problem with it.
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No, you dont mic them. Frequency response with the mic would be the reason not to mic . . . but it's more that there's no reason TO mic. We mic guitar amps because part of the guitar sound comes from the amp and the speakers. DIing a guitar sounds like crap. Whereas bass doesnt need the amp and speakers to color the sound, a bass straight into the PA sounds good, as long as the signal is hot enough. It's best to take a line out from the amp if it's available (SWR and others have XLR outs).
DIing an acoustic/electric is similar . . . in fact, it's the same thing as DIing an active bass. You dont mic your acoustic amp do you?
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You can mic a bass amp or run a line out.
Saying, "you won't want to mic a bass amp" is, to me, a bit presumptuous. It's definitely more convenient to DI a bass than mic it, but there are also sounds that you will be losing by going DI rather than mic'ing (for example, that low end rumble that only a 15" speaker will dish out).
And, I don't really see 100W being a "necessity" point with bass amps. I've heard plenty of low end from 60-80W amps as well. the big thing with increased wattage on bass amps is the desire for TONS of clean headroom. However, playing in a purely acoustic setting, you could probably run through 20W and have power to spare. I know on Wednesday night practices I plug in, but our worship leader doesn't, and I run my bass amp under volume "2" to keep it low enough on stage. You can get away with not mic'ing a bass because of this, however, it is not necessary to have to DI it.
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Originally Posted by thesteve You can mic a bass amp or run a line out.
Saying, "you won't want to mic a bass amp" is, to me, a bit presumptuous. It's definitely more convenient to DI a bass than mic it, but there are also sounds that you will be losing by going DI rather than mic'ing (for example, that low end rumble that only a 15" speaker will dish out).
I'd think you'd have trouble getting a mic that can accurately reproduce the "rumble" you speak of without losing the high end, electric bass covers a pretty wide frequency range. And most PAs use 15" speakers . . .
But I suppose you could mic a bass amp, and with the right equipment, it could sound good. In all the concerts, shows, churches, etc I've played for I've never seen it. More mics on stage = more feedback = less mics for other things, and so on. Why mic it if you dont need to? Many good quality bass amps have a DI built in. I would never advise anyone to do it.
Originally Posted by thesteve And, I don't really see 100W being a "necessity" point with bass amps. I've heard plenty of low end from 60-80W amps as well. the big thing with increased wattage on bass amps is the desire for TONS of clean headroom.
I agree with you here. I said close to 100, I meant to include at least 80 watt amps. But, more below . . .
Originally Posted by thesteve However, playing in a purely acoustic setting, you could probably run through 20W and have power to spare.
I would agree with you here, except that most or all of the 20 watt bass amps I've heard sound like garbage. They're usually practice amps designed for beginners with a 10" speaker and no horn, and, well, just sound bad. I am sure there are small practice amps out there, 50w or less, that sound good, but for bass, they seem to be scarce. I figured he had a better chance of finding something decent a few steps up. Besides, if he's going to be doing larger gigs as well and DIing (or micing . . .)
Another thought I had, was to suggest a small keyboard amp, like the KC-100 or -300. These will work as a bass amp in smaller situations, and can also handle a mic, acoustic guitar, keyboard, etc, plus they make a great powered monitor.
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Originally Posted by mt_spiffy But I suppose you could mic a bass amp, and with the right equipment, it could sound good. In all the concerts, shows, churches, etc I've played for I've never seen it. More mics on stage = more feedback = less mics for other things, and so on. Why mic it if you dont need to? Many good quality bass amps have a DI built in. I would never advise anyone to do it. most venues i've played at did one or the other, or both. Right now at church we don't have enough DIs to go around so I just mic the bass...not much other options there. Here's another thought (and I dont' have an answer for this) but why do so many bassists stress over their cab setups (4x10, 1x18 vs. 8x10 vs. 6x10 vs 4x10, 1x15, vs etc) if DI is really the best solution? I would agree with you here, except that most or all of the 20 watt bass amps I've heard sound like garbage. They're usually practice amps designed for beginners with a 10" speaker and no horn, and, well, just sound bad. I am sure there are small practice amps out there, 50w or less, that sound good, but for bass, they seem to be scarce. I figured he had a better chance of finding something decent a few steps up. Besides, if he's going to be doing larger gigs as well and DIing (or micing . . .)
Another thought I had, was to suggest a small keyboard amp, like the KC-100 or -300. These will work as a bass amp in smaller situations, and can also handle a mic, acoustic guitar, keyboard, etc, plus they make a great powered monitor. this is true...I mostly meant that 20W is enough. the problem is that, as you pointed out, most manufacturers simply don't make decent low-wattage bass amps.
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Originally Posted by thesteve Here's another thought (and I dont' have an answer for this) but why do so many bassists stress over their cab setups (4x10, 1x18 vs. 8x10 vs. 6x10 vs 4x10, 1x15, vs etc) if DI is really the best solution?
For stage volume/sound, and gigs/rehearsals that arent big enough for them to be going through the house. Think about it, whenever everyone on stage uses in-ear monitors (which I HATE with a PASSION like the DEVIL), there's never any bass amp, or at least, no cabs. The bass is either run right into the board, or through a head/preamp and into the board. Guitar amps and Leslies are somewhere offstage with the mics running back to the board.
And, personally, I like a 4x10 on top of a 1x15 or 1x18, and the 4x10 must have a horn.