Question:
Okay, I have a question about tone...
I play a Schecter C-1 through a Digitech RP200A straight into the sound board at my church, which sends the signal to the PA speakers in the "sanctuary" (kind of like a sanctuary, but smaller, with chairs instead of pews). anyway...
When i play with any effect on the RP200 with a significant amount of distortion, the tone sounds very...weak. For instance, if i were to turn the distortion to full (rp200 volume is at about half), it sounds very weak, not like it should when you turn the distortion that far up; it should sound somewhat powerful, but it doesn't. Does that make any sense? It's like somewhere in that chain, something is sucking half the tone out of the guitar. With clean sounds, it sounds ok, not as bad as when i turn the distortion on.
With my 15W practice amp at home, when i turn the distortion up (on the rp200, not the amp; amp is set to clean channel), it sounds like it should: a more powerful tone, has that "kick" to it...well, as much "kick" as a 15W can get...
I know that using my amp instead, and miking it, and sending the signal from the mic to the soundboard makes it better, but that creates feedback problems, as we already have 3 additional mics onstage being used for singers, and adding that 4th just creates feedback. Plus, there is another guitarist besides me, and he has the same problem, and he has a Rp400x.
Is there any way to get my tone back without using a mic? I've heard about standalone pre-amps: would that help any? Or should i just mic the amp, and find some way to lessen the feedback? and if so, do you guys have any tips of how to do so? We have a couple of sm-57's we can use if we decide to mic our amps, but again...feedback. I would really prefer not to use the amps if at all possible...
Any tips? Thanks guys!
Answer:
If the PA is set up correctly, there should be no feedback problems. It's not the number of mics that creates more feedback, it's their position. In concerts youve got over 5 mics just on the drums and there arent any feedback problems. I'd seriously try miking the amp again, maybe put the amp far from the speakers.
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get a line 6 pod
Answer:
Originally Posted by paat get a line 6 pod na go with you amp!!!!
I should create an amp only clan!
Answer:
It could be that there's a compressor/limiter in line or inserted into the channels of the PA that you and the other guitarist are using and they're set at a particular threshhold that's very low.
Or it could be the gain on the channel of the PA is down.
But since you said the clean sound is ok, I'm leaning towards something inside the Digi that's causing this.
Maybe your mfx pedal has a built-in limiter used in conjunction with the distortion sound or the pre/post gains need to be adjusted for distortion/overdrive. My Digitech Genesis I has a power-on default of compressor/limiter/gate ON but can be manually overriden if desired. Still, everytime it's powered down and then on again, I've got to manually defeat the compressor/limiter/gate (if needed).
Your RPx00 may be similar.
Answer:
Originally Posted by dnl88 na go with you amp!!!!
I should create an amp only clan!
Do that and I'll create an army of guitarists who are also sound engineers who'll teach you how to set your amp up in a worship setting. And we'll superglue your volume knobs to the position that we set them to.
It's for your own good, understand.
Answer:
Originally Posted by gtrdave Do that and I'll create an army of guitarists who are also sound engineers who'll teach you how to set your amp up in a worship setting. And we'll superglue your volume knobs to the position that we set them to.
It's for your own good, understand. why does the amp have to be loud? if it's too loud face it towards the back but come on man, why shouldnt worship be good quality sound wise?
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Originally Posted by dnl88 why does the amp have to be loud? if it's too loud face it towards the back but come on man, why shouldnt worship be good quality sound wise?
I'm the first one to support an amp over a guitar running direct and acoustic drums over electric drums.
I'm also keenly aware that there's a lot of folks involved in modern contemporary worship who don't understand what "too loud" is and how it pertains to adding massive distraction to the worship experience.
And dealing with this thread specifically, I'm still thinking that there's a problem inside the RP200 and not externally. Running an amp won't fix it.
Why not correct the problem instead of letting it exist and throwing another variable into the situation?
If an amp cures the problem, I'm all for it. But I'm skeptical that it will from all that's been described.
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Oh sorry, I didn't read the whole thing, I just thought his tone was sucking. Misunderstood sorry!.
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I used to have the same problem. Now I have the flexibility of doing both, micing the amp (if we are using a good amp) or using a preamp before feeding the line to the PA (in the case where we have simple setup). That's how I got my hand on Zoom G2 (I use it as my preamp). I'm still impressed with that little black box.
Answer:
Originally Posted by dnl88 Oh sorry, I didn't read the whole thing, I just thought his tone was sucking. Misunderstood sorry!.
My apologies too...I didn't realize that the original post was cross-posted in the effects forum and I wrote a detailed response in that thread, not knowing this thread existed in the amp forum.
I'm all for everyone being able to use a real honest-to-goodness amplifier...that's what I use...but I do understand the struggles that are present due to, mainly, misinformation and a lack-of education (and occasionally ego) when it comes to contemporary worship and the sensitive dynamics of it in today's churches.
Acoustic drums vs. electric drums is another debate that can get everyone involved very, let's say, "passionate" about their opinions.
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Your tone sucks because the interaction of amp-with speaker-with air-with mic, is a big component of what creates your overall tone.

If you have feedback when you mic the amp, put the amps in a different position. I like to have my amp facing me, as close as possible. Put it up on a chair if you have to. If possible, place your amps so that those that need to hear guitar are the only ones getting the direct amp sound. This way you put as little as possible in the monitors, keeping the stage volume lower overall. Keep you amp turned down as low as you can, and still get good tone, and still hear it.

With feedback, only the monitor speakers should be visible from the singing position. If you can see the "horn" of your main "house" speakers, they are too far back. Get them up in front of the stage. I have seen too many sound systems set up with the mains behind the singers, and the open mics pointing right at them (the mains). This is a recipe for feedback. Monitors on the other hand are designed to go on the floor with a cardioid mic right in front of them. Cardioid mics have a dead spot that you can use. When setting up the mic, use the mic as an imaginary arrow, the arrowhead is where you plug the mic in. the arrow should be pointing at the tweeter or horn of the monitor. If you have two monitors, one on either side, use a hypercardioid mic. This applies to any open mics. Use the mics dead spots to your advantage. Check what reflective surfaces are near the mics that may be bouncing sound from the speakers right into them.


You may have noticed sometimes when someone starts to hear feedback, and they automatically cup their hand over the mic to try and stop it? This usually makes it worse, because now their hand is reflecting the sound from the monitor in front of them directly into the "open" side of the mic.

Lastly, at the mixing board, remove any boosts of more than 3 db to any open mics, and if you have one of those "on the console" or even a rack graphic eq, please remove the dreaded "DJ", or "smiley" curve! Graphic EQ's should be used very sparingly to boost, and primarily as a feedback notching (cutting) tool.
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OK, you have two separate scenarios - thru a guitar amp at home, and a full range system at church, I am assuming you are playing alone at home and with a group at church.
1) with a guitar amp, leave the cabinet/speaker simulator off, at church going to the board (or any full range sound system, including headphones) you need to have a cabinet simulator on.
2) A major difference between your home vs. church scenarios is that at church your guitar is in the context of a mix. What sounds ok to you at home will not necessarily "cut thru" in a mix. My first guess when you even mentioned distortion was that you are using too much (common issue), when you said you have it turned all the way up.... Distortion is a great thing, but beyond a certain threshold, it flattens out the ADSR envelope of yer guitar signal to the point where it becomes less and less effective as an instrument. I call it "flatlining" - when the signal is so squashed that the guitar doesn't contribute anything musically; it can be vey loud and sound ok (to the untrained ear) by itself, but as soon as the other instruments come in to play, it completely disappears, and has the exact same effect as a mic on a jar of buzzing bees - backgound noise. Modern devices like high gain amps, modelers, distortion pedals, etc. have way more distortion than what can be used effectively in the context of a mix. If you are using a model of a high gain amp like a Soldano, Boogie, Marshall, etc. try setting the gain on about 2 or 3.
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hey thsi kinda goes along with this i had a question im using the rp300a for chruch and its good but it lacks its power and stuff when i play but like me and the other guitar player swap effects pedals like one week i use mine and then the next i use my churches tonelabs se and the tonlabs sounds so much better now is it because it has the tube thingy that makes it have its own preamp and if so what preamp should i get for my rp300a to sound better?
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Byrnnryb, just so you know, it is against the rules in this forum to "cross-post" or post the same question in multiple threads. We do this to prevent clutter. Since you have gotten several good answers here and in amps, i'll simply move everything to amps and merge the threads, but I strongly suggest you go read the site rules (link is at the top of the screen under Rules of Conduct) so you can understand how we work. Other then that, have a good one!