Question:
Just for the sake of discussion......
Both small-ish tube amps. What are the significant differences between the two?
Answer:
The Fender is going to be better built and more reliable. The Peavey is nice for the price, but Fender is a better amp manufacturer. They're more popular than Peavy for a reason.
Answer:
There will be a difference in tone. I have a Classic 30, and while it is not a "British" voiced amp a la Marshall etc I would say it is Mid-Atlantic. It's somewhere between the Fender and Marshall sounds.
The Fender is will be slightly better build quality wise but it is still budget PCB construction (even if the budget is not quite as tight as the Peavey).
Tonally, in my subjective opinion, the Peavey may be best sounding amp in its price range but I do have reservations about its build quality. Its not an amp that you could buy and reliably expect to still be using 20 years down the line. Having said that I've had mine 4 or 5 years now and not yet experienced any significant problems. If you do get the Peavey, a good Celestion speaker (I have a Vintage 30 in mine) is a worthwhile upgrade. This is probably the case with the Fender as well.
Al
Answer:
The Fender is NOT a better built amp, and most definatly can never be said to be more reliable than anyone. Also the Peavey IS an amp you could buy now and use 20 or more years from now. The build quality of Peavey is on par with with ALL the other manufactures and frankly, better than a lot. Peavey is also very well known for having customer service that is head and shoulders above their competetors. Fender's customer service is HORRIBLE. Peavey is in my opinion, one of the best values around, and the Classic series are some of the best amps you can get at any price.
As for the sound diference. I think the Fender is cleaner overall than the Peavey, but the Peavey has a much smoother overdrive than the Fender.
Fender= 6L6 based power section= more clean headroom, Very chimey
Peavey= EL-84 based power section= overdrives easier, and I think it is also smoother. Warmer cleans, with a little less headroom.
Answer:
Quit thinking small - get both.
I haven't had a Classic 30 apart yet, but I have a 12 year old heavily modded PV Bravo tube amp - it will definitely see its 20th birthday. It is every bit as well constructed, with the same types of components as my HR Deville 4x10 except that it is particle board instead of plywood, so to insure the 20th, I will have to keep it out of the rain (although that would destroy the electronics anyway). I have had them both apart several times performing mods.
Both the Classic and the HRD have separate pc boards for tube sockets with pc mounted pots and in/out jacks. More similarities than differences betweeen the 2 IMHO based on looking at the schematic/PC layout of the Classic, and "intimate" knowledge of the Hot Rod series.
Both are plently loud, either would benefit from a speaker upgrade, by reputation the PV would benefit more. If you take proper care of either one, it should last a good long while. Buy the one you like best for its sound, features, and price.
Answer:
Both the Classic and the HRD have separate pc boards for tube sockets
Not true on my Classic 30. The valve sockets are mounted directly on the main PCB and it the way it gives when you change valves is not reassuring. I have had mine apart and seen how it is built. It is designed to be cheap to build but it is a horrible design from a long term maintenance point of view. If anything goes wrong it will cost a fortune to fix because it will take any tech an hour longer to get at the bits than it would on a well designed amp. I know there are some techs who refuse to work on Peavey's as they arer such pigs to work on. When it goes wrong in any significant way then it may not be economic to fix. The good news is that you could buy a replacement cheaply.
The other problem is that it's non-adjustable fixed bias which means that you will spend more on valves in the long term as they will not last as long because they cannot be biased properly. The Peavey is also rather ahrd on valves - I know this from personal experience. If you do want an amp you can keep for 20 years then you would be better off spending more money in the first place which will have lower repair bill and lower valve costs because you can bias it properly.
Having said all that, it is a good sounding amp which is why I bought one. I just wanted to let you know the drawbacks.
Al
Answer:
Fixed bias does not mean it can not be biased. The Classics Are not very hard on tubes either. I get about year from a set of power tubes, which is good for ANY amp. These amps are work horses. The beauty of fixed bias is, that you can change the character of you amp by putting in hotter or colder tubes. Where's Nate when you need him.
Also ANY professional amp tech who refuses to work on these amps is an IDIOT. Especially since they are NOT any harder or easier than any other amp on the market.
Answer:
Ok........I'm going to think about (electronically speaking) whether fixed-bias is harder on valves (tubes) or not... I know that my Mesa-Boogie Studio .22 (a fixed-bias amp) is very hard on the power tubes, but that could be for other internal design reasons. I haven't had a Classic 30 apart recently, and I've never been under the hood of an HRD at all...
I've played some on each amp in my time, and my ear likes the Classic 30 the better of the two... but it's probably just personal taste (the Studio .22 is my favorite amp and it sings through 2 EL-84's...)
Nate
Answer:
I have had a few sets in mine and have found that I get good power tube life UNLESS I stick in a Real HOT set. Then they do tend to get used up quicker. However, I like mine slightly on the cleaner (cool) side and they still break up real nice.
Answer:
Not true on my Classic 30. The valve sockets are mounted directly on the main PCB and it the way it gives when you change valves is not reassuring.
We had this discussion once before - I am puzzled; I have the Peavey schematic and PC board layout - I looked at it before I posted on this thread because I had remembered what you had said. It shows that the tube board is separate, showing all of the many jumpers that connect the 2 boards - J1, J2, J3, etc... I don't know if there are 2 versions or what, but when I have seen back of them, the tubes are protruding from the bottom of the chassis - it would have to be on a different PC than the controls which protrude from the top of the chassis...??! I just looked at one on ebay to verify that. Sanity check - passed.
What you have described is how the Crate Vintage Club series are made - everything on 1 PC board and the tubes face inward toward the speaker, very difficult to change the tubes. Is that how your Classic 30 is ??
Here's a Classic 30 picture:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=38076
Answer:
Fixed bias is the method of biasing, it doesn't have anything to do with whether there is a bias pot or not. Most larger amps are fixed bias -post 50's Fenders, Marshalls, etc, some have a bias pot, some don't. Cathode bias is the other method, which is found on older amps like some old tweed Fenders, some "boutique" amps, low wattage amps, and amps that claim to be class A like Vox AC 30's and AC 15's. Cathode biasing does not yield quite as much output as fixed biasing, it has a little different character, since the amount of bias applied to the power tube varies with the level of the signal being amplified. Fixed bias always has the same amount of bias current at the power tubes irrespective of the signal or output level, hence the name "fixed" bias.
Any fixed bias amp can be biased - it is easier when it has an adjustment pot. If there is no pot, the voltage divider resistors for the bias supply need to be changed out for different values - same thing a pot does. The disadvantage to the pot is that it can drift in value, or even get dirty enough to cause the amp to cut in and out! Everyone has experienced dirty pots on a volume control or whatever right? Same thing for a bias pot- it is a potential failure. Whether to put a pot in or used fixed resistors is a design compromise decision; reliability vs. ease of biasing adjustment. A little PC mount pot at an OEM cost is probably about 15 cents, literally. I don't equate fixed resistors in the bias supply as a cost cutting measure at all.
As far as power tube life - yes, a hot bias will shorten tube life; the hotter the bias the shorter the life. Different bias levels are said to have different tonal characteristics. Running the amp at a level where the power tubes are saturating/distorting will result in a much shorter tube life than using it at low, clean levels.
I have read that EL 84 tubes are not as "sensitive" to bias current levels as other tubes like 6L6's and EL 34's, for what its worth. I even read something from one "guru" who said the EL 84 amps don't even need to be biased...
The best way to avoid the whole bias angst is to buy matched tubes in a medium "hardness" - they are closest to the "theoretical" specs for that tube. The low and high "hardness" rated tubes are the mutants, further away from the ideal specs...
Answer:
Major Tom is right. I think my Classic 50 has 3 PCB's.
As for the EL-84 tubes, I have read many times that they are run hotter in guitar amps than the original design intention. However, they are some of the toughest tubes around, and can take a VERY wide variation in voltage. This is why you really do not need to make bias adjustments to the amp. Also the fun part is you can really change the character of your amp with different tubes. Hotter, colder or right in the middle, as long as they are matched you can just plug them in and go.
Answer:
Yesterday I stopped at the local shop and they happened to have a Peavey Classic 30, so I gave it a try. I used a Gibson 61-reissue SG. OK, it's a better guitar than my Dean EVO, but it was hanging right there (and has two humbuckers, like my Dean).
I liked it, and really liked the thick crunch I could get from channel 2. I was able to set it to the exact amount of break-up I wanted. It may be several months, but it looks like the Classic 30 may be my first tube amp.
Answer:
I haven't been around for a couple of days so this may be replying to posts that are a day or two old.
Yes there are 3 main circuit boards in the Classic 30 that are connected by jumpers. The problem is that the board with the valves on does not just have the valves. It also has a lot of other components on it as well. And because of the configuration you can't get at these components. You also can't do basic stuff like measure plate voltages on valves etc without pulling the circuit boards from the chassis (and you have to pull all of them) - which involves large numbers of screws and taking all the knobs off the pots and taking all the nuts of off these. And when you pull the circuit boards you no longer have an earth connection to the chassis! There are ways round this but it is not a nice amp to work on. A well designed amp would allow a tech to make diagnostic measurements without having to do this much work.
Also, if you do have to pull the boards, the jumper arrangement is quite fragile and easy to break.
Fixed bias is the method of biasing, it doesn't have anything to do with whether there is a bias pot or not. Most larger amps are fixed bias -post 50's Fenders, Marshalls, etc, some have a bias pot, some don't.
What I said was that the Peavey is a non-adjustable fixed bias - i.e it does not have the bias pot. Also given the fact that you can't even take any measurements on it without ripping the whole thing to pieces, biasing it by replacing the resistors is a major exercise.
The other thing on the Classic 30 is that the big power supply capacitors are glued in place. Given that these are likely to need replacing eventually, this could cause problems as well.
Again, I'm not saying its a bad amp but you generally get what you pay for. At some point a valve amp will need work on it, and the Classic 30 will cost a lot more to work on than a lot of other amps. Also, the way the valve sockets are directly mounted on one of the main PCB's, and the way it flexes when you change the valves, suggests to me that it is more likely to need that work than an amp where the valve sockets are chassis mounted. Add in the issue of the non-adjustable bias and the potential effect on valve life, and in the long term the Peavey will cost more to keep going than an amp that may cost more up front.
Don't get me wrong, I do own one, and it is a good sounding amp (better sounding than many amps which cost a lot more in my opinion) - its just not built to last in the same way as some others are. Its the choice you make when you buy it.
Al
Answer:
I have a unique experience when I jam with a friend- he has a Peavey Classic 30 and i have a Hot Rod Deluxe.
Our consensus is that my clean channel outplays his, but his amp overdrives much much nicer.
I can't ever get my amp to overdrive nicely at low enough volumes for use at church or with a show choir or in a pit, its very frustrating that I'm going to have to invest in some sort of pedal for distortion when I can get a great tube overdrive sound, only its too loud.