Question:
I am in need of something to go direct into the house with.
In order to cut down on stage noise, my worship leader is trying to do everything through line-outs and run guitars and all direct with everything coming back in the monitors. Right now I have no sort of cab simulation so it sounds pretty ridiculous...well the cleans don't sound horrible, but my Jekyll and Hyde sounds like fizz...it's sorta funny actually.
Now, I want to work with my worship pastor on this. I'm not super anal about things like "tone" and feel it's more important to work with my leader than to try to buck the system, so unhelpful comments are getting deleted.
I've been thinking about some different options. My first one of course was to go XTL. Of course, this would put a bit of a financial strain on me (or the church). Also, I've really developed my personal tone with what I've got and I feel like I really know my current stompboxes well enough that I'd like to avoid the cost.
I'd like to get some feedback from someone that's used one of the Digitech pedals with the cab simulation, specifically on the quality of the cab sim. From this, the Bad Monkey seems to be the cheapest of the bunch, and while it'd be an OD sitting at the end of my chain (a bit unorthodox) it wouldn't be a big deal as long as it works. I guess my main questions are:
Is the cabinet sim of good quality?
and
Does it work well with other pedals in the chain?
I've also thought about using something like a tube pre-amp for a microphone (such as the one offered by PreSonus). Will one of these work to tame out the fizz in my signal, or will I still need a cab sim to work with it?
If anyone has any other suggestions for what to use, go ahead and throw them out there. I do have to admit I'm partial to solutions that allow me to keep using the pedals I already have. I'm even tempted to try to use the "booster output" on my Acoustic 150 to see how it works. It's basically a line-out used to send signal to a slave power amp...I'm not sure how well it'd work as a direct send.
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve I am in need of something to go direct into the house with.
In order to cut down on stage noise, my worship leader is trying to do everything through line-outs and run guitars and all direct with everything coming back in the monitors. Right now I have no sort of cab simulation so it sounds pretty ridiculous...well the cleans don't sound horrible, but my Jekyll and Hyde sounds like fizz...it's sorta funny actually.
Now, I want to work with my worship pastor on this. I'm not super anal about things like "tone" and feel it's more important to work with my leader than to try to buck the system, so unhelpful comments are getting deleted.
I've been thinking about some different options. My first one of course was to go XTL. Of course, this would put a bit of a financial strain on me (or the church). Also, I've really developed my personal tone with what I've got and I feel like I really know my current stompboxes well enough that I'd like to avoid the cost.
I'd like to get some feedback from someone that's used one of the Digitech pedals with the cab simulation, specifically on the quality of the cab sim. From this, the Bad Monkey seems to be the cheapest of the bunch, and while it'd be an OD sitting at the end of my chain (a bit unorthodox) it wouldn't be a big deal as long as it works. I guess my main questions are:
Is the cabinet sim of good quality?
and
Does it work well with other pedals in the chain?
I've also thought about using something like a tube pre-amp for a microphone (such as the one offered by PreSonus). Will one of these work to tame out the fizz in my signal, or will I still need a cab sim to work with it?
If anyone has any other suggestions for what to use, go ahead and throw them out there. I do have to admit I'm partial to solutions that allow me to keep using the pedals I already have. I'm even tempted to try to use the "booster output" on my Acoustic 150 to see how it works. It's basically a line-out used to send signal to a slave power amp...I'm not sure how well it'd work as a direct send. What about a Hughes and Kettner red box? http://cgi.ebay.com/hughes-and-kettn...QQcmdZViewItem
I have owned two H & K products with built in red box and it is quite good. The tubeman I owned had it and the cream machine I am selling has it. It basically is a DI with coloration to sound like a 4x12 IIRC. Having used them, all I can say is the tone was way more than passable. Also, you get to keep using your pedals.
Answer:
+1 for the H&K. Apparently Martin Smith de la Delirious uses these.
Answer:
I was in similar situation a while back. Our church got new soundboard so we went the "no amps on stage - everyone direct" route. I had just put together a pedalboard to use with my Classic 30 and still wanted to use that. I was actually looking at the Tech 21 TRI-AC. It's a 3 channel preamp (Fender, Marshall, and Mesa simulations) about the size of an amp footswitch. I ended up moving and haven't been playing live, so I never got to check it out, but in my research I found a lot of guys using them direct with pedals in front. May be something to look at. Pricewise: $189 new but I just checked ebay and there are a few listed in the low $100 range. You can check www.tech21nyc.com for more details.
Hope this helps.
Keith
Answer:
I don't know much about these yet, but I was looking around the Boss website and they have a couple new pedals that are the single pedal size and model one amp. They had one that was a '59 Bassman and another that was a '65 Deluxe Reverb. They collaborated with Fender to create these pedals and they act as an amp simulator. I'm kinda curious about them. They might be a good solution to problems like yours if they work well... Might be worth looking into.
Answer:
Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq What about a Hughes and Kettner red box? http://cgi.ebay.com/hughes-and-kettn...QQcmdZViewItem
I have owned two H & K products with built in red box and it is quite good. The tubeman I owned had it and the cream machine I am selling has it. It basically is a DI with coloration to sound like a 4x12 IIRC. Having used them, all I can say is the tone was way more than passable. Also, you get to keep using your pedals. This seems like a really good solution. If I got one of the ones that runs off of a 9V AC adapter, I could just use the daisy chain extension I have and not have to worry about batteries. Originally Posted by Keith L I was in similar situation a while back. Our church got new soundboard so we went the "no amps on stage - everyone direct" route. I had just put together a pedalboard to use with my Classic 30 and still wanted to use that. I was actually looking at the Tech 21 TRI-AC. It's a 3 channel preamp (Fender, Marshall, and Mesa simulations) about the size of an amp footswitch. I ended up moving and haven't been playing live, so I never got to check it out, but in my research I found a lot of guys using them direct with pedals in front. May be something to look at. Pricewise: $189 new but I just checked ebay and there are a few listed in the low $100 range. You can check www.tech21nyc.com for more details.
Hope this helps.
Keith ooo...good suggestion. I totally forgot about the Tech21 SansAmp line of pedals. Originally Posted by metropolis4 I don't know much about these yet, but I was looking around the Boss website and they have a couple new pedals that are the single pedal size and model one amp. They had one that was a '59 Bassman and another that was a '65 Deluxe Reverb. They collaborated with Fender to create these pedals and they act as an amp simulator. I'm kinda curious about them. They might be a good solution to problems like yours if they work well... Might be worth looking into. I wish Boss' website wasn't so vague. It says it's an amp simulation, but doesn't really go into how well it works in a DI format.
Answer:
I've used a Red Box and an old Sans Amp line driver in the past, both with mixed results.
As a matter of fact I just sold my Red Box a few weeks ago because I wasn't crazy about it and had no need for it.
Yes, it works but there is better available.
Still, if you're so inclined then I believe all of the models since the MkIII have a 9vdc power jack.
I used the Bad Monkey in church once as a DI and it worked rather well, imho.
I haven't tried it with other pedals in the chain before it but I could give that a shot this evening if I have a few extra minutes before/after rehearsal and report back tomorrow.
Currently the PODxtl, BOSS GT-8 and similar are the only way that I know of for an electric guitarist to get both respectable sound and versatility in a direct-to-mixer environment. The catch for some is the $400 price tag.
All of the less-expensive multi-effects boards (Floor POD et al) seem limited by their having effects programmed in succession only rather than true random access...but you knew this already.
Answer:
Originally Posted by gtrdave I used the Bad Monkey in church once as a DI and it worked rather well, imho.
I haven't tried it with other pedals in the chain before it but I could give that a shot this evening if I have a few extra minutes before/after rehearsal and report back tomorrow. if you could, that'd be most excellent. the Bad Monkey was my first choice for a solution. Currently the PODxtl, BOSS GT-8 and similar are the only way that I know of for an electric guitarist to get both respectable sound and versatility in a direct-to-mixer environment. The catch for some is the $400 price tag. Yeah...I could probably sell off my pedals and get enough for a used POD xtL, but at the moment that doesn't seem like the best solution for me. After messing with my signal chain over the last year or so, I've really come to understand how I fit in stylistically, and I'd like to retain that as much as possible. For me, using a modeling system would only be a secondary (or maybe more like quaternary...you get the idea) solution. I would definitely find use for it, but it's not what I really want to do if another solution is possible. I'm definitely considering multiple options on this one and am willing to have unsatisfactory tone for a couple weeks if it means I end up satisfied in the long run.
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This might be a dumb idea, but does surrounding an amp with acoustic foam or something like that help?
Answer:
If you want to try something that could be the answer and very inexpensive: Ultra-G Basically the Behri "Red Box"

I played through one of these once in a church in Poland. We were on a mission trip, and they didn't have an Amp for me, so I plugged my pedal board into the Ultra-G. I was quite impressed by the tone I got out of it. I think I even forgot I was direct after a bit.

At the price you could try it out and still afford to go another route if you don't like it.
They're even cheaper if you go e-baying:
Behri
Originally Posted by BWFalcon This might be a dumb idea, but does surrounding an amp with acoustic foam or something like that help? You mean like this?:
http://www.amptone.com/diyisobox.htm
Or maybe like this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/live/...dall+isolation
Answer:
Originally Posted by BWFalcon This might be a dumb idea, but does surrounding an amp with acoustic foam or something like that help? I haven't thought too much about an iso-cab. I think part of the move wasn't just to reduce stage volume, but also to just clean up the way the stage looks in general. I do have an amp and cab that might work, but I'm not 100% sure it's something I want to try. I may end up talking to the sound guys and worship leader about it. Originally Posted by Maestro_dmc If you want to try something that could be the answer and very inexpensive: Ultra-G Basically the Behri "Red Box"

I played through one of these once in a church in Poland. We were on a mission trip, and they didn't have an Amp for me, so I plugged my pedal board into the Ultra-G. I was quite impressed by the tone I got out of it. I think I even forgot I was direct after a bit. I forgot about Behringer. They do make a few Tech21 clones that might be worth looking for. I know that Behringer isn't the most loved name, but I figure that if it works...
Answer:
hey steve (no homestarrunner pun intened), tell me what you end up deciding on, cause i'm in the same situation you are and would like to know what you figured out
Answer:
Originally Posted by irtrogdor hey steve (no homestarrunner pun intened), tell me what you end up deciding on, cause i'm in the same situation you are and would like to know what you figured out Right now I'm really considering the Behringer ultra-G. I'm wondering if I go that route if I should also invest in a small tube preamp like the PreSonus I mentioned earlier.
Answer:
IMHO you won't get any benefit at all from the tube-pre, as far as warming it up, if that's what you're after. Those things sound like poo if you push the tube circuit into actual distortion. Let your pedals do all the warming. All this low end toob stuff is way over-rated.

You said the concern was more space than volume? Have you considered mic'ing that amp in another room? You could get a 30' instrument cable to go out of your pedals to your amp, and stick the amp and mic in another room behind the stage (if you happen to have one). It gives you the added benefit of hearing EXACTLY what the mic is picking up, and hence what is going out to the FOH. You can play around with mic placement and tone much more effectivley this way too.

This is actually more or less exactly what I do at church right now, with the main difference that my amp has two channels, and I get to keep it near me (turned down real low if on at all, pointed up at my head.), and mic the extension speaker out the other channel, in the back room.

One drawback is that every so often someone messes with or bumps the mic. One time we went through a whole rehearsal, I just could not get my SOUND. At the end of the rehearsal it clicked in my head: "it sounds like the mic is facing the wrong way ." It was, of course.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Maestro_dmc IMHO you won't get any benefit at all from the tube-pre, as far as warming it up, if that's what you're after. Those things sound like poo if you push the tube circuit into actual distortion. Let your pedals do all the warming. All this lo end toob stuff is way over-rated. that was just what I was hoping for...warming it up. thanks for the opinion, good to know that it probably won't work. Right now my signal chain looks like this:
Fender Strat-->Boss TU-2-->Dunlop Crybaby-->Visual Sound J&H-->Dano Tuna Melt Trem-->Boss DD-5-->DI box
I don't have anything in there that's particularly warming persay...though honestly I thought my clean tone wasn't terrible. It wasn't great, but it was passable...it at least stayed clean.
I may try throwing in my Dano PB&J and see if I can dial in a reverby sort of tone with it using the fast delay setting. I'm also borrowing a Boss Super Phaser to play around with for now.