Question:
The following is inspired by a reply in another thread here.
The topic, I feel, is worthy of it's own thread so here 'tis.
What do you do if someone on your team or a potential candidate for your team is hopelessly unskilled in the position they're in or that they're wishing to fill?
Let's say it's a singer who flat out can not sing. I mean cat-in-heat-type squealling. Their pitch is much more off than on and advice/lessons have gotten them nowhere. Their timing is rough as well. Basically, they make Tom Petty sound like an opera singer...
BUT...
They have a servant's heart. They just love Jesus and they want to serve, serve, serve. They're always on-time for rehearsal and service. They come to church not because they're on the team and not because it's a cool place to hang but because they desire fellowship with brothers and sisters in God's house.
Remember; they can not sing but are on the team and they're Aunt Mabel's daughter. If you upset Aunt Mabel, you upset the Pastor...he's her brother.
You're the worship leader. People are complaining. Other team members are leaving and going elsewhere because they claim that they're "distracted" by her.
What do YOU do?
Answer:
I would kick her off the team. No..it wouldn't be a "you're fired"...it would have to be done in all love and tact (and honesty). But she would have to go.

When you are on a worship team, you are essentially leading people into the presence of God to give Him glory (yes, God's glorification is important in everyday life...but an actual worship service is a little "bigger", imo)

Not only are you leading people into worship, but it is *very* important to remember that there is a *very* spiritual aspect to leading worship. That is, Satan will do his best to distract and detract from worship. So if a singer can't really hold a note, or keep time, and is truly detracting (it's not just a personal clash/grudge--she really is lousy) from the team's efforts, then she needs to go.

To go back to the spiritual warfare aspect (and I got this quote from another musician I know), "A good-hearted-but-unfit Navy SEAL will probably be more dangerous to his companions than to the enemy". That is, no matter how good my heart/intentions are, if I am truly not physically equipped handle the task before me, I'll probably cause more harm than good.

Again (without all the corny analogies )...the pastor's niece would have to go. The actual "letting go" of this member may be ugly...and complicated (since the pastor would seem to have a personal attachment), but she would have to go.
Answer:
I've recently dealt with this for a singer and on the other extreme, a bass player.
Singer: Total dedicated heart, always there when the doors are open, serves within the church and within the community. Sang horribly however. Most of the notes were off pitch and always way too loud. The singers around her actually made faces of pain when she got too carried away. I spoke to her in love a couple of times and she promised to try harder. It didn't help. I finally made a recording of one of our rehearsals. I listened to it and she stood out like a sore thumb. It was absolutely horrid. I gave it to her and asked her to have a listen. We got together on Wednesday night. First I spent a lot of time commending her for her heart, her service, her dedication, her living for Christ in every visible aspect of her life. Then I had to do the "But...when it comes to the music, it's just not your spiritual gift.." speech. Having listened to the recording, she was actually embarassed at how terrible she sounded. She asked me "Is that what the congregation hears??". I said that it was. She agreed that she was causing a problem and said that she would look for other ways to serve. This was not easy for her and she did shed some tears. We prayed together that God would show her what he would have her do. All in all, it was went pretty well for me. If she had been resistant, I would have had to simply tell her she could not continue to be a member of the praise team as a singer. I am thankful that was not the case. Now she is very active with the inreach group that keeps up with who is sick and may need meals, who is having difficulty in their lives and needs a prayer chain established. She says she loves it and now that she's not a part of the music team, she really has the time to pour herself into it. She is very happy to serve this way. Thank you Lord!
Now for the other extreme:
When I took over the team, we had two bass players. The main guy was a Marcus Miller wannabe. He could play like the intro to Seinfeld and do it blindfolded. Lots of flash, slap and pop, lots of showboating. Just an overall kick butt bass player that really had some chops to show off. That was the problem. It was ALL about him. He did not display a Christ centered life at all. He thought he was so good that he did not need to make all of the rehearsals. He would say "I can play these songs standing on my head, I'm skipping this week." He had no patience for others on the team that needed more time to learn a new song. He did not participate in anything but the music. If the church did any kind of outreach, or fundraiser, special study, or benefit, or any kind of exta curricular activity at all, he was nowhere to be found. I talked to him about this a couple of times and his attitude was always that of the "I'm only game in town so deal with it".
The second bass player was not nearly as good. In fact he was average at best. He could play a basic beat, follow the chord progressions, and keep time, but there was no flash, no impressive skill at all. He did however have a 100+% servants heart. He had established a care fund for an orphanage in India, he volunteered to be the "grounds keeper" looking after all the burned out lights, the broken window latches, the cracking paint etc... and he showed up at all rehearsals whether he was going to get to play bass or not. When he did not get to play bass, he was happy to shake an egg or bang on a conga. He would do anything just to be a part of it.
After having had enough of bass player one and his self centeredness, I made bass player 2 our main guy. I obtained the full support of the pastor first. Bass player one has since moved on. Oh we don't have the spiffy thump pop and flash we had before, but we have a true worshipper holding up the low end for us and that suits me just fine.
So, I see this as a two fold question. What do you do with the ones that have the heart but no talent, but on the flip side, what do you do with the ones that have the talent but no heart?
Answer:
Good discussion...
I think I would have to keep her. I could not let her go myself, but I like the speech about this is not your gift, etc.. and encouraging her to find other ways to serve. If she quit the group to find other ways to serve, then great!!! But even after the speech if she didn't want to quit the group I would still have to let her sing. What I do with one of the ladies in my group is simply turn her mic down after sound check, (its not all of the way off, but close). This way is doesn't distract other singers/worshippers, but she still feels as though she is leading worship...
Is this wrong??? (I kinda sometimes feel bad about it...)
Jay
Answer:
Originally Posted by jmpeter316 What I do with one of the ladies in my group is simply turn her mic down after sound check, (its not all of the way off, but close). This way is doesn't distract other singers/worshippers, but she still feels as though she is leading worship... In my church this wouldn't work because the vocalists all hear out of the same monitor. If one singer was there in warm-up and suddenly gone during the service, they'd know.
I wrote up a longer response to your original question earlier Dave...but then I lost it. I might rewrite it when I can muster up the concentration.
Answer:
Thanks for the replies so far.
I'll add this; A couple months ago I had the privelidge of hearing Lincoln Brewster speak at a worship conference. For those that don't know, Lincoln is a worship leader at a church in the Cali inland-Bay Area, has a fairly successful recording and performing career and is a ripping guitarist...and, I believe, a heart set on God and set on giving God his best.
In the conference there was a question raised about this thing that we're talking about here only it was regarding a bass player who was struggling to keep up musically and not showing any signs of improvement.
Lincoln's response to the question was one of setting up a criteria of "reasonable expectations", both in your life and on your instrument.
In life were the basics: love the Lord, seek Him first, be in His Word, be a servant, love others above yourself.
On your instrument were also the basics: know the songs, play in-time, play the right notes (or sing in-time and sing the right notes for singers).
Upon giving the attendees these "reasonable expectations", there was some laughter from people in the audience, as if these were somewhat unreasonable expectations for the people that they may have had in mind at the time.
That scene that day at the conference caused me to think: would we expect our pastor to be ill-equipped to teach God's Word? To mumble and stumble along, not knowing what the Bible says? Would we expect our youth to be subject to being taught and mentored by adults that haven't got a clue and, worse, could do them harm? Do we expect our elders, overseers and deacons to not be 1 Timothy 3 men?
Have the standards in music ministry in some cases been lowered when compared to other ministries?
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve In my church this wouldn't work because the vocalists all hear out of the same monitor. If one singer was there in warm-up and suddenly gone during the service, they'd know.
I wrote up a longer response to your original question earlier Dave...but then I lost it. I might rewrite it when I can muster up the concentration.
If you get the time to rewrite it, I will read it.
Answer:
Originally Posted by gtrdave Thanks for the replies so far.
I'll add this; A couple months ago I had the privelidge of hearing Lincoln Brewster speak at a worship conference. For those that don't know, Lincoln is a worship leader at a church in the Cali inland-Bay Area....
Lincoln doesnt have to deal much with this though. Bayside Church (the church he plays at) has more than enough talent to fulfill any needs. I went there one time when he wasnt there and the third string worship team was playing that day, they sounded better than any other worship band I had heard and they were third string. All incredible musicians dedicated to God. hmm...im not sure what my point was, shoot.
Anyways if a member is causing a problem, I say talk to them about it, if nothing changes, talk again and yell at them and make them cry. Hopefully that will get them to leave. Sit them down and say "You're singing sounds like my grandma in the bathroom" or "your guitar playing sounds like a squirrel running up and down neck of the guitar".
You can always just talk to the person though, that and pray about it.
Answer:
Originally Posted by GoMilton Lincoln doesnt have to deal much with this though. Bayside Church (the church he plays at) has more than enough talent to fulfill any needs. I went there one time when he wasnt there and the third string worship team was playing that day, they sounded better than any other worship band I had heard and they were third string. All incredible musicians dedicated to God. hmm...im not sure what my point was, shoot.
Ah, but there was a time when he did have to deal with it or so he has said...
Originally Posted by GoMilton Sit them down and say..."your guitar playing sounds like a squirrel running up and down neck of the guitar".
I think I've heard this guy before...
Answer:
Originally Posted by gtrdave If you get the time to rewrite it, I will read it. Here goes.
It seems that so far we're looking at the obvious part of Dave's post. Singer on the vocal team that can't sing...well then she has no part...we're ignoring the complications.
In this type of situation I think that the best thing to do is to work through the Pastor before talking to the individual. First, he's your boss, and thus in turn he should have the final say on worship team dynamics. Second, he's her uncle. I'm certain that he'd rather hear it from you first, than to hear it from outside the "chain of command" (her mother).
When you talk to the pastor, have an outline of what you want to say. Here are some things that came to my mind.
1) Tell him the situation. Commend her for her servants heart, but explain to him that while she has the will to be on the worship team, her lack of talent has made her a liability to team continuity.
2) Explain to him that you've tried to work with her individually to improve her abilities, but this has not helped. She continues to be a liability to the continuity of worship.
3) Make sure that it is clear that this is not just something that you as the leader have decided, but that you have also received complaints from other worship team members and the congregation.
4) Tell your pastor that you believe his niece would better serve the church in another capacity. As Paul tells us, we are all part of the body of Christ. In this case, she might be a very good foot or hand, but she's not making the best voice.
I believe a reasonable pastor will consider these points and allow you to continue her removal from the team. When you talk to her, do so in a spirit of love, not of discord.
1) As you did when you approached the pastor, commend her for her willingness to serve and spirit of worship.
2) Explain to her that despite their combined efforts outside of normal worship practice, her vocal ability are still sub-par. Tell her the verses where Paul talks about the different functions of the body of Christ and that you feel that worship leading is not where her gifts are best directed.
3) Encourage her to continue exploring and developing her gifts and serving God. Tell her that while worship leading is not their strongest ministry that she can still praise God just as well from the congregation as she can from the stage.
4) Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES bring up the fact that others have brought her lack of talent to your attention unless she asks, and in the case that she asks, do not mention any names. This can only breed bitterness and paranoia.
5) After speaking to her, try to stay on good terms with her. She's likely going to take it hard, as most people would do with rejection. If you see her after a service where you have seen her singing out in the congregation give an offhand, undirected compliment about how you love watching God's people sing to Him during the service.
Ultimately, remember that you're dealing with a real person, not just a project or an automaton. You're not dealing with an employee where inadequacy means getting fired but a volunteer that is just trying to help.
Answer:
If I were in charge and had this situation on my hands I would talk to the person about it. I have a friend who plays bass but not too great, but he has the servant's heart. The worship director asked him to start playing, but then got frustrated with him because he couldn't keep up with the rest of us. We had a conversation and I encouraged her to talk to him about what it would take for him to improve or find another way for him to serve with the team. Unfortunately that didn't happen, their relationship went sour and my friend went away upset and hurt. I obviously can't know how things might have gone if it had been handled differently, but it's hard to imagine that things would have gone the way they did if a loving conversation had taken place.
Answer:
I think Joe's solution was the one I would do in your shoes, Dave. Sometimes, all a person needs to do is hear themselves and nothing more needs to be said. I've always felt that a recording of a group together will expose flaws, imbalances, weaknesses, as well as strengths. A video of the group may also be eye-opening and show areas where we need to improve.
Of course, her reaction was consistent with her character and she responded in a way that was a win/win situation for both sides. That is what I think should be hoped for.
Answer:
the recording thing is probably the best idea so far. mainly becuase people don't usually realize how bad they sound. if you can hear yourself singing perfectly in your head, you can trick your ears to hear the same thing(only your own voice though. and it only works that way with voices). so by al means record a few sessions and listen to them.
Answer:
we've had to deal with this before on our youth team.....a girl absolutely just could not sing. So we talked to our youth pastor and he told her that singing just wasn't her gift. She was ok with it in the end. But, if you must have her a part of the team i would talk to the good ole sound man about turning her down in the house......as bad as that sounds its really the only thing i can think of.
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve Here goes.
It seems that so far we're looking at the obvious part of Dave's post. Singer on the vocal team that can't sing...well then she has no part...we're ignoring the complications.
(the bold font emphasis was added for clarity)

I just took Dave's post as a "stay or leave" type of thing. I realize (and alluded to the fact) that there would be an impressive number of complications, but I thought the intent of the original post was to decide whether to keep a 'not-so-talented' singer with great heart.