Question:
Okay, so I just got an electric guitar and amp recently, w00t. I told my worship leader, so she scheduled me two weeks in a row for electric so I could get some experience, which I all too gladly accepted. So I just finished the second time yesterday, and I can't help but realize I don't know what's overdoing it and what's not. My worship leader doesn't play guitar (she plays piano), so she doesn't really describe very well what she wants from me. There's another guy on our team who also is a worship leader who usually plays electric or bass, so he's, I suppose, my main mentor, as it were. I don't know what's overdoing it and what's not. The first week, the guy, Rusty, was there helping me out and advising me what to do or what not to do... I ended up getting confused, pretty much, and it seemed he didn't really want me to do any riffs or anything. That kinda saddened me, because I've been working on it a lot, and, in some songs, I know the riffs complement the songs.
Then, this past week, Rusty wasn't there, so I was on my own. So I was playing and stuff, and I was definitely in tune with the Holy Spirit, so I played some riffs in some songs (such as My Savior, My God by Aaron Shust, I think it was), and, in the part of the song where there's that nice instrumental, I pretty much just let 'er rip with a solo I felt the Holy Spirit giving me as worship. It wasn't shredding, 'cause I can't do that, but it was improv, on the spot, and I thought it sounded really good, as well as the riffs and stuff I was doing. We had an extended worship session, which was sweet, because I got to worship with my guitar as well as my voice, and that is something I feel called to do.
So, after that, I asked my worship leader (the piano one) if she liked what I was doing and stuff, and if she was okay with it. I should have asked her beforehand, I know, but I didn't think I was going to have the Holy Spirit give me some stuff . She said she really liked it, and she wants me to do more Spirit-inspired improv and riffs and stuff if I get 'em, basically. She wasn't objecting to it at all.
So who do I listen to? She's the Worship Coordinator, too, so she's the head honcho, as it were. However, Rusty has seniority, pretty much, as he's an elder and has played guitar on the worship team for longer than any other guitar players, I believe. I think it would be impossible for me to tell him, a very experienced Blues band guy, that she said it was okay, so back off, ya know? I'm not sure what to do. Any advice? And what is "overdoing" it? How do you know if you are "overdoing" it? I asked around after worship and I was told that my stuff sounded good, but I don't know if it was distracting or not, but I don't think it was.
So, yeah. Who should I listen to, and what's overdoing it?
Answer:
Did Rusty actually say that you shouldn't do riffs or did it just seem like he didn't want you too?
I'd suggest saying to him what you just said here (point him to this thread if it's appropriate), it might be that he doesn't know whether you're up to doing improv etc. and is erring on the side of caution. I say talk to them both and see what their opinions are. I'd strongly recommend not setting them against each other and say "well he said this", "but she said that", that will only lead to disharmony (in more ways than one!). Be humble, if they do say don't do it then don't, it may be that they want you to just play along for a while to check that they know that you are up to it.
hope that helps,
God bless, Rich
Answer:
Originally Posted by Rich* Did Rusty actually say that you shouldn't do riffs or did it just seem like he didn't want you too?
I'd suggest saying to him what you just said here (point him to this thread if it's appropriate), it might be that he doesn't know whether you're up to doing improv etc. and is erring on the side of caution. I say talk to them both and see what their opinions are. I'd strongly recommend not setting them against each other and say "well he said this", "but she said that", that will only lead to disharmony (in more ways than one!). Be humble, if they do say don't do it then don't, it may be that they want you to just play along for a while to check that they know that you are up to it.
hope that helps,
God bless, Rich
Well, he just didn't seem to like it. He played in a blues band for around twenty years, so he's a clean guitar kind of guy, and overdoing it around him seems to be what I'd consider normal playing. However, the same playing is fine with my other worship leader. It seems his definition of overdoing it is a lot stricter.
Answer:
In my experience people seem "to overdoing" it, when they play riffs and improvs
- in almost every song
- very loud
- complicated/ or complex
- and most important if they seem to putting the limelight on them and not on God. That may not be the case but you just might appear that way, because you are pretty new in that group and rusty may think that you are trying to show off.
- In Worship often simple is better than complex. For example we had band practice today. We asked our lead guitar player to play more riffs solos ( up to then she played with acoustic so it didn't make much sense) on an e-guitar. I realized that often when she played i got distracted, not bc she played something strange or espeically complicated, but simply bc she played single notes, which capture attention. They sound beautful and all but when played throughout the song you are morelikely to cause distraction than enriching the experience. learn when not to play and keep solos and riffs to a minimum and try to clear a instrumental part with your band where you can play a solo.
OK i hope that helps a little.
God Bless
In His Grip
Dennis
Answer:
NHZGRIP gave some good advice. I suggest you follow it.
As to whom you should listen to, I think you should listen to both the worship leader and Rusty, who seems to be an experienced musician. If one of them says the electric guitar is being overdone, then tone it down.
In a worship band setting, it's much better to underplay than to overplay.
Answer:
It's all context and perception.
Let's assume that for you and your church regardless of who is on the team, the context is the same:
Building, people, style of music, volume, etc...
But with these two different "leaders" you're getting different comments mainly because their perception is different;
keyboardist vs. guitarist, possibly pop/classical-based vs. blues/rock based, gender difference, age difference?
Which one is right? Whomever you're serving under at that time. It's best not to grow yourself too big simply because you've got a guitar and an amp and have been asked to play on the team. As wonderful as that situation is and as important as it might make you feel, you are still first and foremost a servant who should be living in humility and not a rock god seeking his next solo.
If Mr. Guitar Player requests that you hold back then hold back.
If Ms. Pianist requests that you take a solo then take a solo.
Rejoice and be thankful and yet humble in both situations. God probably has many more years in front of you to play solos and such and probably a lot more for you to learn overall so don't be so quick to over-analyze everything right now.
Answer:
I will go along with Dave in saying, just don't over-analyze it too much. I think you yourself just have a tendancy to over-analyze in general, which isn't a bad thing necessarily. I think the bast thing you can do is just increase your awareness of what's going on, and practice your musical sensibilities, to where your playing is as tasteful as can be. There's a real grey area between additive and distracting, and as you grow as a musician, you'll become more attuned to where that area is. I'd also say that in the meantime, while you're stille developing, just play what you're sure won't be distracting, and it'll all be good.
Answer:
Thank you guys for your advice! I definitely tend to over-analyze, so I'll keep all of your advice in mind and pray on it to see how I can do it and such. Thanks again!
Answer:
DaGeek,
I play lead in our band as well as lead the group. Here are a couple things to consider.
1- be aware that not playing is often more powerful than playing. I once heard someone say that Miles Davis played the rests better than many people notes. too true.
2- unless you are laying the groundwork for the song with a groove (think U2 Edge guitar here), really work on not playing single note stuff while the vocals are going on. I will often employ the Santana trick of tossing in short phrases between lines but really try to stay out of the "vocal space".
3- stylistically, you need to sound like you are in the same band with everyone else, even if it is not "your style". You need to have a sound that incorporates everyone's strong points into something new and special. That is what makes playing rock and roll stand apart from classical IMHO. If the rest of the band is playing one style and you throw down with some Puddle of Mudd riff, likely it will stand out. In a way, you are speaking through your guitar. Try to use "language" that people around you understand.
Good Luck
Answer:
Originally Posted by trpullen DaGeek,
I play lead in our band as well as lead the group. Here are a couple things to consider.
1- be aware that not playing is often more powerful than playing. I once heard someone say that Miles Davis played the rests better than many people notes. too true.
2- unless you are laying the groundwork for the song with a groove (think U2 Edge guitar here), really work on not playing single note stuff while the vocals are going on. I will often employ the Santana trick of tossing in short phrases between lines but really try to stay out of the "vocal space".
3- stylistically, you need to sound like you are in the same band with everyone else, even if it is not "your style". You need to have a sound that incorporates everyone's strong points into something new and special. That is what makes playing rock and roll stand apart from classical IMHO. If the rest of the band is playing one style and you throw down with some Puddle of Mudd riff, likely it will stand out. In a way, you are speaking through your guitar. Try to use "language" that people around you understand.
Good Luck
Thanks for that!
I haven't really developed my ear to hear what's good and what's not in a song, but I normally won't play notes over vocals. I generally would just play chords and stuff in this, and still do, and play some notes in-between, if at all.
Answer:
Originally Posted by trpullen I will often employ the Santana trick of tossing in short phrases between lines but really try to stay out of the "vocal space".
That's a really good point, you should try to avoid playing anything other than long notes or chords over vocals (unless you are playing the tune which I generally try not to do anyway), it just sounds messy and is confusing for the congregation. by all means riff between verses etc. but do avoid the "vocal space" (good term, I'm gonna start using that!).
Answer:
listen...listen to the feel of the songs and go on that...like last week we were doing this song my worship leader wrote and he was doing real soft part and i looked at the sound guy and this guy that does piano for the spanish service at my church and they said "go crazy and do a solo!" and i thought "thats gonna take away the focus of the congregation" so i did a soft little solo that sounded great and helped the song build back up great, but i just try to listen to the feel of the song and play to that, try to listen alot to live worship cds, to see how those guitarists go with the feel of the songs...listen to hillsong alot lol, espcially their last couple united cds!
Answer:
In worship in general, I think there is no such thing as overdoing it. Song by song, though, overdoing it is anything that could distract the congregation (or audience, if you go on tour) from focusing their full attention on worshipping God. Just stay out of the vocal space (a good term) and play solos only when you can feel the space for it.
Answer:
It's overdoing if it distracts a reasonable percent of the audience
For example, I was in a church down in Virginia (i live in NY) My mouth was hanging open when this guy finished his rifs, my family members (who don't play guitar) were enjoying it at best, not realizing the talent that was up there. But just becuase he distracted one person (me) doesn't necisarily mean he should tone it down...
Answer:
Originally Posted by Guitardude4him It's overdoing if it distracts a reasonable percent of the audience
For example, I was in a church down in Virginia (i live in NY) My mouth was hanging open when this guy finished his rifs, my family members (who don't play guitar) were enjoying it at best, not realizing the talent that was up there. But just becuase he distracted one person (me) doesn't necisarily mean he should tone it down...
Was he distracting you more than, say, an excellent singer who is singing a beautiful song would?
For the Christian it's safe to say that if you recognize someone's abilities and praise God for them then there should be no real distraction any more than recognizing the beauty of God's creation in the mountains, valleys, oceans and rivers and praising God for it.