Question:
Hi all,
Apologies in advance if this thread ends up getting moved - this question is more about team dynamics than actually leading, but I couldn't find a "worship teams" forum.
VERY broadly speaking, it seems that the musicians in our Church come in two flavours:
1) Confident, creative, focussed, good listener, feeds off what others are playing, realises that their instrument only has to make a 20% contribution to the overall sound and is careful not to clash with what others are playing, their spiritual antenna is in the "up" position when we're leading.
2) Not very confident, always apologising, nervous, needs a lot of affirmation, mostly plays exactly what is written, is focussed on getting to the end of the song in one piece.
My question is, how do you turn "type 2" people into "type 1" people? I should point out that - technically, at least - our type 2s are good musicians (one of them is even a music teacher!). Interestingly, most of our type 2s are keyboard players. Some of our backing singers are much the same.
We're really trying to raise the bar in terms of the quality of the music we play at the moment, and our music teams are generally a mix of both kinds of people. We're doing our best to encourage the type 2s, and hoping that by rubbing shoulders with the type 1s in the team, they'll pick up some of that mindset and really respond. We're also putting a lot of our rehearsal time into finding the best arrangement for each song and encouraging people to think creatively... dropping out for a verse, playing a verse with a different keyboard voice and so on. This is quite a change from the way we worked in the past, and we're also being careful not to overwhelm people, or place *too* much responsibility on the folks who aren't too confident. We're hoping that they'll respond positively and begin to mature as creative, confident musicians.
I'm sure many of you have been here before... what suggestions do you have?
TIA
Tarby
Answer:
I'm going through that myself right now. I think you are doing the right things, just keep trying to challenge them.
It can be frustrating for the leader to keep spoon feeding some members. I'm in a small church and dont have a large pool of persons to draw from for members.
I finally realized this: In a perfect world I would be surrounded by type 1's as you described. I would learn and grow as a musician and fullfil all my musical needs.
However God decided that wasn't what I needed to learn and what he needed me for. So I find my self learning lessons about managing people in a loving way and mentoring type 2's.
Answer:
very true, i am also experiencing this as a worship leader from a small-family church as well. you know, i'd love to get all 1's, sure why not? and for a while we've had only all 1's, except, there were only 3 of us in the band. while getting more people in the team and invovled in worship, usually, beginners are 2's. nothing wrong with that of course, majority of it is just how comfortable they are being around you guys. and if you're not sure they should not play a certain instrument, dont let them. also, stress that individual instrument practice should not be done during WORSHIP practice, have them do that on their own at home.
just give time, make them practice, and pray.
Answer:
Originally Posted by crazychu just give time, make them practice, and pray.
Being comfortable with the songs is the first step in being able to take the next step. Can you practice more often?
Answer:
Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle Being comfortable with the songs is the first step in being able to take the next step. Can you practice more often?
Well, we're certainly practicing *longer* than we were, but not more often. Average practice time recently went up to around 2.5hrs from around 1hr... we practice every Thursday and lead every Sunday morning at the moment. Previously, each team would usually lead once per month and practice only on the Thursday before the meeting that they were scheduled to lead.
The big change we made recently was to come right down from having four separate teams playing one week each to having just one core team of bass, guitar and drums comprising the best available musicians in the Church, playing every week and supplemented by a selection of keyboard players and singers. Personally, I think our type 1s would practice more because they're really excited about what God is doing and they see the big picture, but the type 2s don't *seem* to see it in the same way just yet, and so I'm being careful that we don't wear them out! So far, they're handling the increased commitment that has been required since we changed the structure but I don't want to turn the heat up on them any more. I think if we did that before they really catch the vision for where we're trying to go, they'd just get tired and disillusioned. Hopefully, the extended practice time and the more creative approach we're trying to take in rehearsals will pay dividends...
Cheers,
Tarby
Answer:
try having saturday practices for sunday sets, im gona start doing that with my church soon
Answer:
Originally Posted by crazychu try having saturday practices for sunday sets, im gona start doing that with my church soon
For what reason? It's something we've thought about... getting together around Saturday teatime and having a meal together and rehearsing. But one good thing about a Thursday rehearsal as opposed to Saturday is that it gives the type 2s more time to practice their stuff at home...
Answer:
It's funny that I stumbled upon this thread. My current worship team is dealing with this exact topic. There is a big difference between the two types of players. Not just in the 'musical level' but also in their personal worship.
Sometimes you may have to question their involvement in the team. What are their goals: both personal and team-wise? Where is their walk with the Lord? What is their motivation for being in the band? How committed are they to the team? etc.
You may want to have a worship team meeting. If you feel that the vocalists need to 'step it up' also, then invite them. Otherwise, only have it for the instrumentalists. Challenged them. Don't be negative, but be real with them. A team that is tight and unified will take you to extreme measures in the praise and worship set!
Answer:
Originally Posted by Axmanjr Sometimes you may have to question their involvement in the team. What are their goals: both personal and team-wise? Where is their walk with the Lord? What is their motivation for being in the band? How committed are they to the team? etc.
I would say that you have to ask this for both sets of people, often it can be harder for the more acomplished musician to make sure their motives are right because they are very good and everyone can see that.
I would agree that practice is the key, the only way to increase someone's confidence in playing in a band is for them to play in a band.
Originally Posted by Tarby777 The big change we made recently was to come right down from having four separate teams playing one week each to having just one core team of bass, guitar and drums comprising the best available musicians in the Church, playing every week and supplemented by a selection of keyboard players and singers. could you just explain your reasons for this? from personal experience of churches with both these systems (a few groups/one core group) I would say that having a few groups is far better than just one for a few reasons:
1) It is a huge commitment for the team that play every week and you all really risk burning out.
2) the congregation (and the band) can get comfortable with your style and feel like they know exactly what's goin to happen and therefore you have to try very hard to keep it fresh.
3) The band can seem very elitest, if it's the same Bass player/guitarist/drummer every week it doesn't really give the opportunity for new players to get involved (which I think is vital in any church).
I'm not saying that that is how it is with you but just that those are some problems I've encountered with that system.
God bless, Rich
Answer:
I think this is a common issue with worship teams, especially at larger churches.
In my experience, it usually a case of intimidation. The "type 2's" see the existing team members as a solid unit, and they are the outside influence trying to fit in.
Developing a strong relationship first is the key. Get to know each other on a personal level. Develope friendships. THEN strap on the instruments and make some noise.
Our church calls this "Shadowing". A new musician will sit in on a few of the practices. Get to know each other. Give input on some arrangements on songs...and so on. Again, the main purpose is to develope a realationship with the team. After a few weeks, they are asked to participate with the worship team with the intent on playing for the upcoming service.
Chris
Answer:
Originally Posted by Rich* could you just explain your reasons for this? from personal experience of churches with both these systems (a few groups/one core group) I would say that having a few groups is far better than just one for a few reasons:
1) It is a huge commitment for the team that play every week and you all really risk burning out.
2) the congregation (and the band) can get comfortable with your style and feel like they know exactly what's goin to happen and therefore you have to try very hard to keep it fresh.
3) The band can seem very elitest, if it's the same Bass player/guitarist/drummer every week it doesn't really give the opportunity for new players to get involved (which I think is vital in any church).
Hi Rich,
I'd love to give a deep, spiritual explanation for why we did it but the truth is, it's just an experiment! Our leaders recognised that the whole church had fallen into a bit of a lull - meetings were predictable, numbers were slowly dropping... and we had to do something about it. I should explain that we're a Church of England church and our Sunday morning pattern was:
0800: Service based around the 1662 prayer book
0915: Trad service (hymns + communion)
1030: Adult contemporary service
1145: All-age worship (mainly for young children & their families)
One worship team would play in *both* the 1030 and 1145 services. The new pattern is:
0800: Service based around the 1662 prayer book
0915: Trad service
1030: All-age worship - now takes place in another building
1045: Adult contemporary service
...and the musicians are only required for the 1045 service (the all-age service has kids + teenagers playing for them now). The old Sunday morning system was a real production line - we always had one eye on the clock and could never allow services to over-run because there was only a 15 minute gap before the next one started! As worshipping musicians, we found this incredibly frustrating as it severely limited any move of God in the meeting. With the new model, we have 30 mins to get ready and no service following on, so there's a lot more freedom. None of this really answers your question, but I thought it might be useful background info, seeing as you asked. I guess that overall, the leaders just thought "how can we make it better than it is?" and part of what they came up with was this idea of - and I hate to use the phrase - a "super-team". I must say, rather selfishly, those of us who were chosen were really quite excited at the idea of getting all the best players together and we're thoroughly enjoying it so far. The congregation seem to be loving it, as do the leaders.
I take your points, and I must admit that we've had one or two "personnel issues" with people who have been left out as a result of the changes. 99% were fine about it, but one guy in particular is really hurt and that's sad. I hope to sort things out with him this weekend. Maybe, as you say, it'll become a bit samey as time goes by but right now it's really fresh, we're excited, we're being more creative than before, there's a real unity among the folks who are "in" and people are saying that it's the best it's ever been.
I guess any system / rota / team config has it's own issues and I've suggested that we might have a month off once or twice a year to avoid burn-out. There are opportunities for the other musicians to play in other meetings... it's just unfortunate that they're all type 2s, and none of them really want to step up to the plate and lead anything!
What we want to do in the longer term is start to get the others back in, but we really want to establish the new mindset in anyone who comes on board (yikes, that sounds cultish). We certainly don't want to be elitist, but neither do we want to go back to the old way of just turning up, having a laugh at the rehearsal and being happy if we just all start and stop playing at the same time!
Cheers,
Tarby