Question:
I'm sure this has been asked on here before, but what is your take on this? Would you rather have someone who is an excellent musician, but has some character issues, and is not very mature in her/his faith. Or someone who is very strong and mature in his/her faith, but not as good a player?
I've been struggling with this... In "Heart of the Artist" (an excellent book I would highly recommend to everyone doing arts in a church) Rory Noland says he wants both. But what if thats not possible in a smaller congregaion?
What role does a persons spiritual walk with God play in your audition processes? What are ways you work to build this aspect of your team so that you are growing together spiritually as you develope musically?
I want to build a team that is very tight, and very strong in their faith.
Answer:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 I'm sure this has been asked on here before, but what is your take on this? Would you rather have someone who is an excellent musician, but has some character issues, and is not very mature in her/his faith. Or someone who is very strong and mature in his/her faith, but not as good a player?
I've personally been the former.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't want more folks like the former "me" serving on my team, no matter how good/great/professional/polished/excellent it might sound.
God doesn't want, need nor deserve my excellent musicianship; He deserves me to worship Him in spirit and in truth and to seek Him first.
Not to be so black and white about it but, if I may be for a moment, an excellent musician alone pleases people but a humble servant first pleases God.
I believe that the latter can also be the former but the inverse is not possible.
Just imagine the Bible verse..."Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?"
Maybe stick wicked guitar licks in there, too..."did we not play great music in your name?"
But Jesus will say:
"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' "

I don't want to be part of that crowd nor do I want to be responsible for leading others into thinking that the priority way of thinking is on music or musicianship, thereby making that crowd increase in size. That would be a very unwise use of the talents I've been trusted with by my Master.
In a smaller congregation we do the best we can with what we have, we put forth excellence, we lead humbly, we serve and instruct and guide and teach and, most importantly, we worship.
Answer:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 I'm sure this has been asked on here before, but what is your take on this? Would you rather have someone who is an excellent musician, but has some character issues, and is not very mature in her/his faith. Or someone who is very strong and mature in his/her faith, but not as good a player?
I've been struggling with this... In "Heart of the Artist" (an excellent book I would highly recommend to everyone doing arts in a church) Rory Noland says he wants both. But what if thats not possible in a smaller congregaion?
What role does a persons spiritual walk with God play in your audition processes? What are ways you work to build this aspect of your team so that you are growing together spiritually as you develope musically?
I want to build a team that is very tight, and very strong in their faith. Well I'd think that you'd want the leader of your group to be strong in faith. As for the other members of the group, I'd say it doesn't really matter. Perhaps being part of a band is a way for them to reach Christ more or a way to talk to the leader of the group more comfortably. By closing off the group to only spiritually mature persons, you might close off necessary opportunities for others. Just a thought
Answer:
Originally Posted by jengoesup Well I'd think that you'd want the leader of your group to be strong in faith. As for the other members of the group, I'd say it doesn't really matter. Perhaps being part of a band is a way for them to reach Christ more or a way to talk to the leader of the group more comfortably. By closing off the group to only spiritually mature persons, you might close off necessary opportunities for others. Just a thought While full spiritual maturity is something that I think few actually ever reach, I think that it is important that the members of a church worship team be reaching for maturity maturity. my reasoning is that, especially in small churches, worship teams often are the second most visible part of the church (next to the pastor himself). while being part of the worship team is a way to grow oneself spiritually, to say it doesn't matter invites room for much trouble
Answer:
Originally Posted by gtrdave I've personally been the former.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't want more folks like the former "me" serving on my team, no matter how good/great/professional/polished/excellent it might sound.
God doesn't want, need nor deserve my excellent musicianship; He deserves me to worship Him in spirit and in truth and to seek Him first.
Not to be so black and white about it but, if I may be for a moment, an excellent musician alone pleases people but a humble servant first pleases God.
I believe that the latter can also be the former but the inverse is not possible.
Just imagine the Bible verse..."Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?"
Maybe stick wicked guitar licks in there, too..."did we not play great music in your name?"
But Jesus will say:
"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' "

I don't want to be part of that crowd nor do I want to be responsible for leading others into thinking that the priority way of thinking is on music or musicianship, thereby making that crowd increase in size. That would be a very unwise use of the talents I've been trusted with by my Master.
In a smaller congregation we do the best we can with what we have, we put forth excellence, we lead humbly, we serve and instruct and guide and teach and, most importantly, we worship.
I guess I wasn't really clear, but it's not that I'm talking about people who are non-believers. I'm talking about people who are followers of Christ, but maybe aren't as mature in their faith...
What do you guys do to grow together in the team, and become a tighter group?
Answer:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 I'm sure this has been asked on here before, but what is your take on this? Would you rather have someone who is an excellent musician, but has some character issues, and is not very mature in her/his faith. Or someone who is very strong and mature in his/her faith, but not as good a player?
I've been struggling with this... In "Heart of the Artist" (an excellent book I would highly recommend to everyone doing arts in a church) Rory Noland says he wants both. But what if thats not possible in a smaller congregaion?
What role does a persons spiritual walk with God play in your audition processes? What are ways you work to build this aspect of your team so that you are growing together spiritually as you develope musically?
I want to build a team that is very tight, and very strong in their faith. IM only 15 and i have been serving at my church for 4 months as the music director. And i have come across this problem, and prayed about it. this sunday i was talking to my dad about a guy from church that wanted to join, and he's a great musician, but is spiritualy mature. So for me the solution was to give discipleship classes that way whovere wants to join the worship team has to go through a class. This is just an idea that i had this past sunday, but i plan to do this i think that this is going to work. but prayer is the key.
Answer:
I agree with what you said, beacause something that i've learned is that God doesn't call the equiped He equipes the calling. And God isn't looking for great musicians he is looking for hearts that are willing to serve Him and no one else.
Answer:
something also to consider. if you can keep a team together, the omre they play together the tighter they will become. you can take the ten most musical people at your church, put them together and have ten clashing styles that won't be tight.
i know i started playing guitar at 15, and started playing with my first worship team at 16. I improved drastically once i started playing with a group because performing in front of people forces you to improve, and also because i was playing alot more. also, even with players who are less skilled in terms of ability, if they have a good sense of rhythm they can become very tight players without necessarily having to play anything complex.
Answer:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 But what if thats not possible in a smaller congregaion? Have a smaller team?
Answer:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 I guess I wasn't really clear, but it's not that I'm talking about people who are non-believers. I'm talking about people who are followers of Christ, but maybe aren't as mature in their faith...
What do you guys do to grow together in the team, and become a tighter group?
What would any Christian that is not mature in their faith do?
Study the word, get into a small group, serve, pray, attend a church study/class, read a companion book, ask questions on an internet forum...maybe bring Scripture associated with that week's songs to rehearsal and speak on it for a moment of two before, during or after the song.
As a team leader I stress the common goal of the team; to worship.
And I stress the importance of rehearsal time together as it's not just a time to go over some new songs but it is a time of fellowship, a time of prayer, a time of praise and worship without anyone watching us.
We can get alone with God in those times and His Spirit bonds us together.
We become of one accord.
Answer:
Originally Posted by gtrdave What would any Christian that is not mature in their faith do?
Study the word, get into a small group, serve, pray, attend a church study/class, read a companion book, ask questions on an internet forum...maybe bring Scripture associated with that week's songs to rehearsal and speak on it for a moment of two before, during or after the song.
As a team leader I stress the common goal of the team; to worship.
And I stress the importance of rehearsal time together as it's not just a time to go over some new songs but it is a time of fellowship, a time of prayer, a time of praise and worship without anyone watching us.
We can get alone with God in those times and His Spirit bonds us together.
We become of one accord.
Yeah! I like your ideas about rehearsal times! It's not just about getting together and practicing, it's a time of fellowship together. I would say that in some ways it's more of a challenge to us... who are we when no one is watching, when we're playing to an audience of one. Do we realize that this is worship just the same as playing to a crowd? How does this reflect our attitude and actions in front of a crowd?
Do you ever do formal Bible studies with your group? or do you do any type of discussions, things like that?
Answer:
Originally Posted by metropolis4 I'm sure this has been asked on here before, but what is your take on this? Would you rather have someone who is an excellent musician, but has some character issues, and is not very mature in her/his faith. Or someone who is very strong and mature in his/her faith, but not as good a player?
I've been struggling with this... In "Heart of the Artist" (an excellent book I would highly recommend to everyone doing arts in a church) Rory Noland says he wants both. But what if thats not possible in a smaller congregaion?
What role does a persons spiritual walk with God play in your audition processes? What are ways you work to build this aspect of your team so that you are growing together spiritually as you develope musically?
I want to build a team that is very tight, and very strong in their faith.
I would take it on a case by case basis. If a person is a non-believer I wouldn't want them on the team. If a person is a believer, but not a mature christian and has some character issues I would want to find out if they are interested in growing and becoming more mature. If so, I would probably want them on the team.
I know that in our youth group band, we've had kids who have come to youth group because their parents made them and aren't really sure where their faith is and God has used their being a part of the team - through the fellowship, the prayer, the study, the rehearsal, and leading the bigger group in worship to draw them to Himself.
Answer:
Originally Posted by gtrdave Just imagine the Bible verse..."Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?"
Maybe stick wicked guitar licks in there, too..."did we not play great music in your name?"
But Jesus will say:
"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' "
I like this. I've never thought of it that way, but it's so true.
Anyway, my thoughts on the issue. Idealy, obviously, you would have both characteristics in the same people. But equally obviously, this doesn't always happen. I think the key is whether they are growing in their walk or not. If you see fruit in their lives, it's likely they are getting into God's Word and growing in their faith. I would rather have a new believer who is not very spiritually mature yet is growing in the Lord consistently and regularly than a mature believer who is apathetic, or possibly digressing in their faith.
But like mentioned by others, being a believer is definitely a requirement for the team. The level of maturity isn't as important to me as the evidence of spiritual growth.
If you don't have people growing consistently in their faith, I'd take Bob's advice:
Originally Posted by bobthecockroach Have a smaller team?
Musicianship is secondary, but it is a definite blessing when you have enough people that you can have growing, excellent musicians.
Answer:
Is the Bible not about taking spiritually flawed individuals and doing great things with them?
Answer:
Originally Posted by Matt4JC Musicianship is secondary, but it is a definite blessing when you have enough people that you can have growing, excellent musicians.
Is it? Is it REALLY?
If you have a person who has a total heart for worship and none or few of the skills, will they be able to effectively lead the congregation into worship without distracting them from it?