Question:
Tonight at rehearsal I found out we now have an in ear monitor system. I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know what to expect but I'm a little anxious as to how it works. I was told not to bring my amp and when I asked, how do I make my ELECTRIC guitar sound good, I was told, you just plug your pedal in like the other guitar player. Well, the other guitar player's pedal is a boss GT-6 which has a line outs to go to a board I believe. And amp modeling. I have analog pedals...anyone have experience with these systems? I just want to know what to expect...
Answer:
I've played with them before, but have never been told not to bring my amp. Usually, though, they do park the amp well off-stage to mic it and (at high-budget places) surround the amp with sound-absorbing materials. That way it takes it out of the stage-volume picture, which is important with in-ears.
Nate
Answer:
We have an in-ear monitor system - I'm trying to remember how the guitarist plugs in.
He doesn't use an amp (the bassist has one, however). The instrumentalists are all on one monitor channel - the in ear monitor cable goes from the transmitter to a small monitor input box that each instrument has. Then one mic cable connects from the snake to the input box, and another mic cable connects from a direct box to the input box. Then a quarter inch cable connects from the direct box to the instrument. The instrumentalists can control the main volume coming in to his monitor, and he can control his instrument volume as well. Most of our guitarists use their own headphones, but we also offer in-ear phones as well for everyone.
I don't know if that helps or not - my monitor is on a completely different system (it's wireless), but since I run sound and help setup the sound every week, I believe that's how it goes.
Answer:
I also believe that two of the three electric guitarists have gone to the POD over an amp, anyway.
Although we have a bass amp, I really do feel like not having amps is a good thing, especially in our situation (meeting in a YMCA gym). Although we have acoustical paneling in the ceiling and such, if we had a bunch of amps and floor monitors on stage, the stage volume would be way too loud.
Answer:
I a bit torn about how I feel about it. A third of my sound comes from my amp! In defense of the electric guitar - the amp is a part of the instrument. If I had a POD it wouldn't be such a big deal but I'm kind of anxious about showing up Sunday not knowing what the setup is like....
Answer:
You are right about the amp being 1/3rd of your setup. It really is more like 2/3rds of your setup.
Here is a recent thread from the effects forum. With just guitar --> pedals --> board it is going to sound fizzy and is not going to sound right. I would recomend finding a way to isolate and mic your amp.
Answer:
In ANY system, the guitar (whether sent through an amp or a digital modeler) goes to the soundboard, then the board (or another mixing console) send the fully mixed monitor signal to the monitors (called and Aux send).
Answer:
Originally Posted by niangelo In ANY system, the guitar (whether sent through an amp or a digital modeler) goes to the soundboard, then the board (or another mixing console) send the fully mixed monitor signal to the monitors (called and Aux send).
Does anybody else besides me want to know what this was a response to???
Nate
Answer:
Our church went to in-ear monitors a few years ago. They're great - you really come to love them because of their control.
You will send your signal chain (guitar->amp->effects->cable) to a "direct box", which adjusts the line signal to an even voltage. This signal goes into a monitor box, where I plug in the headphones. I can hear my signal direct. The box passes the signal to the mixing board. The mixing board sends a master signal back to all boxes so we can hear the overall mix. We control personal and overall mix with independant volumes.
In short: you--> your stuff--> direct box--> monitor box-->overall mix.
The drawback is that a traditional amp is not practical. It would be best if you use an amp modeler of some kind. My bandleader uses a Pod, which I do not like. To me it sounds sterile and digital, but Dave uses it w/ his 57 Les Paul & sounds incredible.
For 4 years I used a Vox Valvetronix AD60VT. I disabled the speaker by plugging in a 1/4" jack adapter into the headphone jack. The amp has a "line out" which I put into the direct box. It's very capable and allowed me to have most effects/amps in one package. It's also 70 lbs.
I now have a Vox Tonelab SE, which is absolutely incredible. Nothing else compares in my opinion. Hope this helps.
Answer:
IEM's are great. They simplify sound greatly.
That said you will take time to adjust. It will just feel different. In 3 months you will wonder how you got by without them.
One 'problem' will be stage communication. Start working on signals or look at using multiple mic's if you need them because with two 'squishies' in your ears you wont hear anything that isn't coming through the board.
As for the amp. Yes you've got a problem. Direct electric guitar sounds pretty bad unless you're just doing some pretty quiet backup accent stuff.
Seriously consider getting a processor. A Line6 POD is great, but costly. For under $100 you have options in Behringer's VAMP and with Digitech. Most of the presets are kinda cheesy bad but if you spend some time working on some basic custom sounds they can be just fine. At the very least you can get a Behringer DI with cab emulation and plug your analog chain into that.
Fact is IEM and a POD is a whole lot easier to deal with from sound production and logistics perspective. A soundless stage is perfect for worship and its worth embracing the technology to simplify things and allow more energy to go into the worship service than in logistics.
Overall it's a whole lot better to be flexible and willing to simplify than worrying about your own preference in a particular amp/cab sound which maybe 2% of your worship audience will even appreciate.
-Russ
Answer:
Originally Posted by niangelo In ANY system, the guitar (whether sent through an amp or a digital modeler) goes to the soundboard, then the board (or another mixing console) send the fully mixed monitor signal to the monitors (called and Aux send).
Yeah, I know, it's not the question/concern at hand
Answer:
Originally Posted by Mr_Mike Our church went to in-ear monitors a few years ago. They're great - you really come to love them because of their control.
You will send your signal chain (guitar->amp->effects->cable) to a "direct box", which adjusts the line signal to an even voltage. This signal goes into a monitor box, where I plug in the headphones. I can hear my signal direct. The box passes the signal to the mixing board. The mixing board sends a master signal back to all boxes so we can hear the overall mix. We control personal and overall mix with independant volumes.
In short: you--> your stuff--> direct box--> monitor box-->overall mix.
The drawback is that a traditional amp is not practical. It would be best if you use an amp modeler of some kind. My bandleader uses a Pod, which I do not like. To me it sounds sterile and digital, but Dave uses it w/ his 57 Les Paul & sounds incredible.
For 4 years I used a Vox Valvetronix AD60VT. I disabled the speaker by plugging in a 1/4" jack adapter into the headphone jack. The amp has a "line out" which I put into the direct box. It's very capable and allowed me to have most effects/amps in one package. It's also 70 lbs.
I now have a Vox Tonelab SE, which is absolutely incredible. Nothing else compares in my opinion. Hope this helps.
This would be great if I 1)had a digital modeler, or 2) had an amp such as this. I have 2 two amps which neither have headphone outs.
Answer:
Originally Posted by russellcframe IEM's are great. They simplify sound greatly.
That said you will take time to adjust. It will just feel different. In 3 months you will wonder how you got by without them.
One 'problem' will be stage communication. Start working on signals or look at using multiple mic's if you need them because with two 'squishies' in your ears you wont hear anything that isn't coming through the board.
As for the amp. Yes you've got a problem. Direct electric guitar sounds pretty bad unless you're just doing some pretty quiet backup accent stuff.
Seriously consider getting a processor. A Line6 POD is great, but costly. For under $100 you have options in Behringer's VAMP and with Digitech. Most of the presets are kinda cheesy bad but if you spend some time working on some basic custom sounds they can be just fine. At the very least you can get a Behringer DI with cab emulation and plug your analog chain into that.
Fact is IEM and a POD is a whole lot easier to deal with from sound production and logistics perspective. A soundless stage is perfect for worship and its worth embracing the technology to simplify things and allow more energy to go into the worship service than in logistics.
Overall it's a whole lot better to be flexible and willing to simplify than worrying about your own preference in a particular amp/cab sound which maybe 2% of your worship audience will even appreciate.
-Russ
I'm not so much worried about actually using the IEMs, it's more a concern that I don't have the proper equipment (digital modeler of some sort) to make this work. At the risk of sounding rude, I'm not going to spend a bunch of money on one either because I don't really like them, and this isn't the church my family really attends, I help out here maybe once or twice a month, so....
Answer:
Originally Posted by Dave H ...At the risk of sounding rude, I'm not going to spend a bunch of money on one either because I don't really like them, and this isn't the church my family really attends, I help out here maybe once or twice a month, so....
Yeah, totally understandable. They should certainly understand they can't spring a cost on you. Most likely the decision maker doesn't even understand the implications, so talk it out with them. There's no reason you can't mic your cab for now just because they want to use IEM. Otherwise, just go direct for now. It's wont sound as good as you'll want but it'll work and if your just there for backing you can be turned down and most people wont notice anyway.
If they want to go with a quiet stage later, then you can talk to them about the need for them to purchase some gear to facilitate the decision. No reason you need to foot the bill if it doesn't fit your own needs, but it's good to know the costs need not be extreme to make it work. The cab emulating DI I mentioned is $35. The Vamp is pretty well respected for $90, and you can go down to $60 for the Digitech RP50 which will sound a whole lot better than going direct without any emulation... even a low budget church should be able to squeeze those costs in.
Good luck with it.
-Russ
Answer:
Originally Posted by russellcframe Yeah, totally understandable. They should certainly understand they can't spring a cost on you. Most likely the decision maker doesn't even understand the implications, so talk it out with them. There's no reason you can't mic your cab for now just because they want to use IEM. Otherwise, just go direct for now. It's wont sound as good as you'll want but it'll work and if your just there for backing you can be turned down and most people wont notice anyway.
If they want to go with a quiet stage later, then you can talk to them about the need for them to purchase some gear to facilitate the decision. No reason you need to foot the bill if it doesn't fit your own needs, but it's good to know the costs need not be extreme to make it work. The cab emulating DI I mentioned is $35. The Vamp is pretty well respected for $90, and you can go down to $60 for the Digitech RP50 which will sound a whole lot better than going direct without any emulation... even a low budget church should be able to squeeze those costs in.
Good luck with it.
-Russ
Thanks - I'll find out what happens tomorrow
BTW - welcome to CGR