Question:
Hi Everybody,
I have a problem. I've been leading worship since more than 10 years now. (I'm 30 ) I lived in Guatemala for the first 20 years, then 5 years in the US and since 5 years in Germany.
I'm going to a non-denominational church here in Wiesbaden, Germany and God open a door so that I could start a worship team in this church some 2.5 years ago. I started trying to give a chance to people to put their gifts in the service of God through Worship (the way it was in the church were I got introduced to worship minitries). But it was a big catastrophe. The culture here is waaaay too different and most people just wanted to be in front and do their thing. Many people came and went but there is one that remained. He got into the team when I was giving the chance to everybody. He had recently got to know Jesus and went to church because of a girl.
Now, the deal is that this guy was a model. So.... this guy looks really good, and not only the face but the whole package. And of course he is as well really "cool"..... whatever..... and anyways. He used to have profetional singing classes and was looking for a contract when he got to know Jesus. Music is one of the most important things in his life (and he mentions that too often) and he is really talented. The problem is, I have the impresion he wants to be the super star!
When he started I put him in the percusions to see his heart and see how things developed. He hated them and did them for almost a year. I know he wanted or wants (still) to find his way walking with God. That's why even being difficult for him he went through with it but sometimes I doubt what his motivation was, because this girl he liked was in our team..... I know I made a mistake by even allowing him in, but.... well. After almost a year God told me that HE was working on this guy and maybe it would be time to give him a chance. So I decided (being the good guy I am ) to put him in front as a backup singer. BIG MISTAKE.... he is the guy that cannot stop talking about what he thinks and giving always opinion of what he think is cool.... men let me tell you I have had many "talks" with him already and my wife (sings as well in team) cannot stand this guy.
He has been the reason of most of the disagreenments in the team, once in front he has find the way to take waaaay too much attention to him self and it is extremelly hard to work with him. He is always saying something to what I say, he is always giving his ideas and everything and being the cool guy that he is even the team goes alone sometimes. And the worse, when he doesn't get what he wants or thinks we are doing something that is not so good he is like a real child, puts his mask of "I don't want to do this" and influences the environment in the team and sometimes even when ministering.
Now let me tell you is not that I'm jealous . I always try to motivate ppl in the team to give ideas, plan things and I really try to involve the team giving them opportunities to decide the list of songs with me and so on..... this guy is waaaaaaaaay out of order. He is the kind of guy that if you offer him a finger, he takes the whole arm.
I have the feeling, and the feeling is really deep, that God wants to move to another level (specially in the youth group) with us and one thing that is needed is to do some clean up in the team. So I'm praying to see how I will speak with this guy, probably I will call my Pastor and ask him to be with me when I speak with this guy.
Believe me I already spoke to him many many times about his attitude and all the stuff. There is as well some friction beween us because I don't let him do what he wants and I don't play his little game. So I have the option to follow God's lead or be nice and tolerant and keep on trying. I know God does exactly the same with us, but I'm not talking about salvation or God's love here, is a ministry and if he cannot do this ministry is not like the whole world will fall appart for him. And anyways he is there for God, like I always say, If you want to do worship you can do it in the bathroom or wherever you are, to be in front and minister is a call and a service.
So what I decided is to give him a chance to think about it and seek God and see if he belongs in this team. I will not kick him out right away but he will not be active in the team when serving in Youth Group and for new projects (we want to go and do worship in Pubs and clubs.... see what happens). He will keep on serving on Sundays that is actually a huge thing.
I do really want to be careful, wise and merciful and show of that is that even having all the cards in the table allowing me to kick this guy out I'm not doing it..... but I want to do Gods will as well and I'm not going to miss His blessings because we have a guy in the team that is being a stone in the way or is robing the attention of the people to him self. God doesn't need SuperStars in worship. Worship is to give the glory to God not to our selves!
It has become really a burden to minister with this guy and as the leader is being very difficult for me now a days.
To finish, the story of a Jockershort version)
In the Age of the Kings, the Jockers were called to entertain the king. A good jocker will entertain the king and his royal visitors. A bad jocker will simply loose his job or..... loose his head. Now, there was this jocker that was really good. He always entertained the King and when doing so, as well the courthouse will be as ell entertained. But the jockers job was to entertain the king, not the courthouse. This jocker noticed that the crowd will always laugh and praise him for being so funny, and the aplouses will drive him to his pinacle. So he slowly started to entertain more the crowd than the king. One day he lost complete focus on the king and started to entertained the courthouse and the royal guests. Guess what happen? The kind suddenly was not more amused and the Jocker was kicked out of the palace.
Now, in a worship team, a leader, voice or instrument, we are there to give worship to the King of Kings.... and if we start loosing focus of what is the reason we have this "job" then we are in deep trouble. Lets not say when we do worship to seek the peoples attention or praise (not like: Oh Worship Leader almighty, bla, bla. You know what I mean),
Well, in the end I have to be faithful to God in context with what HIS word says, and I don't want to find my self not following God's lead because I wanted to be nice to somebody that doesn't belong there, probably, at least not in the team God made me responsible of.
So, if you have any advice it would be really appreciated! It is really hard and sometimes I just want to kick this guys ass out and sometimes I don't know if I should give him more chances, but what he is doing is more destructible than helping the team.... so.... not much of a choice sadly.
Take care and be blessed!
CJ
Answer:
Hey cesarjulia! whatz up?
your long story obviously sets your desperation for advice. Well this is what I personnally think of your problem. If you believe God told you to stick with him despite your trouble then do so. but I strongly believe God does not intend for you to be destroyed in your mind with this kind of problem. It's very obvious that he is more of a deterent to the music ministry than a blessing. I would say trust your feelings with him. keep him in the group but give him the real boundaries when it comes in worshipping The Holy God. Leading a worship in the church is a very important job and if your worship leader does not understand that I believe you must relived him of his duties. But if you happen to see that he has a teachable spirit, willing to submit, and willng learn and grow as a worship leader then let him stay provided that you give him the rules. if he really is a stubborn guy to be with in the ministry I suggest that you put God first and let Him enjoy His much deserve PRAISE AND WORSHIP! otherwise let God suffer hearing his prideful heart during worship time. Be firm and blunt with him, superstars are allowed in the pulpit! No one is to be number 1 on stage except Jesus alone. Don't be afraid of hurting his feelings if it is necessesary but please be sure to restore him carefully.
Note: Find another worship leader! OK?!
Answer:
Originally Posted by OMENG .....
Note: Find another worship leader! OK?!
Hey Thanks man!
Sorry, maybe my looooong story got you confused or I didn't explained it right *darn*
I'm leading the team ... he is a backup singer
We are doing worship next Sunday.... and I'm not looking forward to it..... I think that is already a bad sign.
Blessings, CJ!
Answer:
Hi CJ,
I'm a youth band leader, and I see this happen pretty frequently. We even had a guy who bowed on stage after playing!!!
I don't blame you if you're angry or anything, because I certainly was!
I had to sit down with the young guy, and ironed things out. I told him we couldn't do things like that, and that worship is not our time to strut our stuff to the audience, etc.
Things are now fine.
I think it comes down to discipline a lot. When you become a leader, that becomes an issue you have to handle frequently.
Just recently I had to confront another person on more band issues, so on and on it goes, its part of the job.
I think you need to put a stake in the ground and talk to him, let him know what's wrong and what needs to be done to correct the problem.
Speak the truth in love .
Here's a verse that might help:
(Matthew 18)
If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
--Nathan
Answer:
Originally Posted by cesarjulia Hey Thanks man!
Sorry, maybe my looooong story got you confused or I didn't explained it right *darn*
I'm leading the team ... he is a backup singer
We are doing worship next Sunday.... and I'm not looking forward to it..... I think that is already a bad sign.
Blessings, CJ! sorry for the mistake too! But if he is just the backup singer I believe he's a big threat for the team. Especially for you!(lol) just kidding.
If he really is that bad, why don't you just pull him out of the team? saves you the energy and the worries.
Let me rephrase my last advice: Find another backup singer! ok?
my advice seems a bit harsh but looking at your message gives me the impression that he must be pushing you too much that you are already at end of a cliff! better be him than you.
and if it seems that isn't fair enough for you, well then...... pray hard!
as the song goes by Don Moen " God will make a way where there seems to be no way".
God Bless Bro!!
Answer:
You are not alone. Don't put up with prima donna ism forever, you need to find a solution to it. I couldn't tell you what it is, because I dont' really know your situation.
Answer:
Thanks...... it has been 2 looong years and in this time I have spoken to him already so many times is unconfortable to doit so constantly. You see, like I said, this Germans, after the crap they did (not all of them of course) on WW2 they are kind of very tolerant, and peace, and don't put preasure on anybody, let your neightbor do what he wants is not your business, give freedom, etc. (not at work, but in general in the society). Here the people have almost no respect for authorities and don't let them selfs be lead too strong from anybody (you can imagine they are still schoked by the Hittler thing, incredible but after 50 years is a boundage they haven't broke through, but that is another subject)
So the culture is very different than in the US or Latin America where the people have more respect for authorities. Anyways, this guy and christian ppl here in general have to learn "Gods and His kingdom Culture" and forget theirs, like all of us, we have things in our culture that hinder us.
But yeah, I will talk again to this guy because he IS a threat to this team and since I talked to him already soooo many times alone and then with other people, this time I will bring my pastor, that first, being German have to show him the things in perspective so that he can support me when I go with him to this other guy. My Pastor is sooooo nice and peaceful, I know he will have some trouble accepting my decision as well.
We'll see what happesn....
Answer:
that leaves only one thing to do. Be underhanded, and work it out so he never gets to play or sing, just don't schedule him or tell him when rehersals are.
Kidding. don't do that. Its bad. Thats one thing NOT to do.
Answer:
OK, just as a testimony last Saturday we had our rehearsal like always. I wanted to start rehearsing the "fast" songs for the next day and suddenly he said one of his common commentaries "oh..... I don't feel like singing this fast songs, I would rather start with the slow songs... but that is just how I feel.... i just don't feel like it now..." If you get regularly this kind of commentaries from somebody and this commentaries simply doesn't help and can turn the "feeling" of the rest of the people to "not feel like rehearsing x, y songs" is not really helpful.
Being in the spot where this things have put me, I reacted.... actually I probably overreacted answering him "well.... you know I'm seek of this kind of commentaries that always come from you, you are constantly saying something that doesn't help.... it is so hard sometimes to work with you" I was very emmotional but I didn't say anything else. After some silence (my wife just started praying silently... man, let me tell you she is the best) somebody said lets just start.
We started and to make it short at the end of the rehearsal he announced to the team that it was his last rehearsal in the team because he noticed that he really doesn't "fit" in the team and that since we both don't understand each other, he staying there only makes things worse for the both of us. WOW... I was blown away.
It was very hard, even though in my thoughts I was wondering at God because of how things worked out without me having to take any drastic steps or having a "probable" unpleasant meeting with him and my Pastor. Thanks God not everybody from the team where there, because I know they would have tried to convinced him to stay.
The best thing is that when he said that, we talked and pray afterwards and he left in peace. He asked me if he could sing for the last time with us next day, which was not a problem.
So..... wow.... WOW.... God really saved me a looooot of trouble and I gues my pastor was right: "Pray and let God deal with this difficult things". In such circunstances is maybe the best so that you don't end up hurting another Brother or Sister. Although I was about to reach my limits, I guess God knows us and He has a supreme control over everything we do if we give HIM the control.
This of course brings me fear to be faithful to Him and faithful to what he has given me in my hands. We have an awesome and good God that if we cry out to Him, he will help us in every situation in our lives, no matter how hard or simple it is, I've learned and try everyday to give Him the space he deserves in every aspect of my life and that is that he enthrones him self in every aspect of my life...... but it is a hard process that will endure all our life
Thanks all for your help and prayer if anybody prayed
Be blessed!
Answer:
Wow- praise God that this all worked out. I've gone through something a bit similar (although not identical). I've found lots of Bible stories that relate. Let's see... there's one about the Benjamites. All of the rest of the children of isreal realize that the benjamites are in sin. They kill almost all of them. However, they are eventually restored and they find wives for them. (Your musician friend is going through a time where he'll be off of the team, and hopefully God will speak to him and humble him - maybe he'll even be restored, so keep an eye on him.) But, there is also the story of Saul, who became too proud to do God's will. He wasn't restored.
I'll be praying for you as a leader to make the right choices. God's sure faithful, huh?
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If the guy complains about the songslike that and announces to the band that he's quitting, he's not just childish and immature, he's selfish.
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I'm glad that God answered your prayer and handled the situation in a positive way (I never expected the superstar to have a change of heart!). Hopefully God will find a way for that young man to utilize his talents for God's glory in another way.
Answer:
That's fantastic... I'm glad that God solved that for you before you had to try to go about it in your frail human effort.
About a year ago I had a serious problem with a woman on my team... she had been singing with the established worship leader before I was even in the church, and I was the "up and coming" worhip leader then. I was just getting my "worship feet", finding my style, coming up with my practice orders, etc. She would berate me in front of the team when I made a mistake, or make snide comments to my wife or other team members just within earshot. I wanted to snap after about 4-5 instances.
After a while the worship leader noticed some tension and took me out to coffee. He brought the whole thing up and said, "Look there are going to be problems, but I can see the compatibility issues. I'm just going to stop scheduling her with you."