Question:
Im sure must of you read my fustration about Youth Praise Team. I have been praying and fasting, and still it doesnt seem to be the right thing to do. The other leader of 'our churches' core worship team is the worship directors son, youth pastors nephew, assistant pastors grandson, and drama leaders nephew. He is NEVER on time for practice (i.e. he picks up his girlfriend and goes to Pizza Hut from 5 'til 6 and practice starts at 5 and goes to 530), and then he expects that he will lead that night without practicing. I didnt pay it any attention the first 3 or 4 times. But now its showing in our worship sessions. I asked for extended practices and was turned down. We get 30 min. to set up and THEN practice 4-5 songs. Then the 'Praise Team' drags in from 445 to 600 when their set practice time is 530. They practice 1 song rarely 2. Ive been very thankful that we even get a practice time, but come on...30 min. for 4-5 songs and they get 1 1/2 hrs for 1 song? That was ok for the first month, now you can tell we dont get enough practice. Last Wednesday our bassist, drummer, and I were at church for practice at 5 to discover that they had put 12 6ft folding tables, 2 dozen folding chairs, and odds and ends on the stage just scattered around. Our drummers set had been taken apart and scattered across the stage, his kick drum head was punctered, his tom was damaged, and our AKG drum mic screen was punctered. The youth had $100 worth of black lights in the ceiling, and because of a pastors meeting in that room they threw them all away. To top it off my Ibanez elec. was underneath a table!!!! When we asked the youth pastor who had put the stuff on the stage and who was going to pay for the damages it was finger pointin' time! Most of the adult leaders who had attitudes towards a youth lead worship band had no clue that ALL the equipment (even CD player used for Drama and TV used for music videos) belonged to me and not the church. Now we have damaged equipment and instruments and I have to pay to replace it. They said the would pay for it but when we ask for the monies they say.."Oh..um..we just put money towards the Worship Directors new $5000 laptop and $300 Cell Phone bill...so...later, ok." I dont know what to do, I am humble and am praying and continuing on, but my bassist (also brother) and drummer are mad and starting to complain. Note that I have already lost my Violinist and keyboard players because of this new leadership. Please, advice would be great!!! God Bless!
Answer:
umm..........wow.....
i've honestly never been in a situation anything quite like this. i've had my drums taken apart and moved around without my permission, and i know how annoying and frustrating that can be. and they didnt' even damage anything. they just moved the stuff in a back room, and didn't even take it apart. it drove me nuts though, 'cause i had to go and put it all back when they were done. i think that's the closest thing i've ever been through. i've never had new overall church leadership, 'cause my dad's a senior pastor. so he's always been my leadership, although i've changed youth pastors a few times. no problems with them though. i know i've sort of babbled on about how i don't understand what you're going through, but in a situation like yours, you need to do a couple of things, which you may or may not have already been doing:
1) pray about it. a lot.
2) talk to the worship team about it in open, honest conversation
3) talk to the new leadership, one by one, about the problems
4) you might also want to get the new leadership together to talk to them about it, and you might also want to include your worship team.
5) it sounds like you've been avoiding confrontation, but yeah...avoid confrontation. don't retalliate.
6) stay humble, and no matter what you think of them, submit to them. if you still can't get along with them or handle their leadership, then there are other options. but you must submit to the authority God has placed on you.
Church politics is tricky business. But keep in mind "wwjd", and maintain your calm and cool, but without letting anyone blatantly walk over you.
Sounds like you're in a tough situation man. I'll be praying for you.
Answer:
I’m very sorry that you’ve received this kind of treatment.
I would first insist that they pay for the damaged equipment. Bring it before whatever board you have to.
If leadership didn’t respond, then I would gather whatever is left of my equipment (be sure you can prove that it’s yours), walk out of the building, and not look back.
Answer:
I would remove all my gear from the church. Lead worship with small equipment you can take to and from church when needed. Does any of the equipment belong to the church(sound board, mics)?
Answer:
This really does not sound like a postive situation at all. It's only leading to frustrations for you, and losses/damages of equipment. This should not happpen. At all.
Answer:
Like Tony said, this sounds like a situation you may be better off not being involved in any longer.
Answer:
I agree with Tony. If I were in your position, I would pull my gear, give leadership a bill for the damage, and withdraw.
You cannot push the engine from the middle of the train. I suspect you will continue to be treated this way until you can take it no longer. There are lots of churches that would love to have you. Do you want to stand before Jesus and say, "I honored you with the gifts you gave me and bore good fruit" or say, "I fought the good fight with leadership".
Answer:
Originally Posted by Insane Drummer I would remove all my gear from the church. Lead worship with small equipment you can take to and from church when needed. Does any of the equipment belong to the church(sound board, mics)?
The only thing the church owns is a small, very old, broke, Peavey board. Everything else is mine...
Thanx for all the support guys, I'm sure yall remember my thread awhile back regarding the Praise Team and my dislike for it, 'cause I knew something like this would happen. But I humbled myself and waited for God to move, however it seems like Gods being hindered by the people taht say they are performing Gods 'Ministry'. Your continued prayers and support is much appreciative. My dad is telling me to pack up and leave, even though my passion is to lead people into worship through song, and then have fun with music, I will wait for God to tell me its time.
Answer:
Thanx for all the support guys, I'm sure yall remember my thread awhile back regarding the Praise Team and my dislike for it, 'cause I knew something like this would happen. But I humbled myself and waited for God to move, however it seems like Gods being hindered by the people taht say they are performing Gods 'Ministry'. Your continued prayers and support is much appreciative. My dad is telling me to pack up and leave, even though my passion is to lead people into worship through song, and then have fun with music, I will wait for God to tell me its time.
you don't think this could possibly be Gods way of saying that? i'm not saying it is but if all this stuff is going on, you don't feel welcome, all your gear is damaged and they won't pay, your dad thinks you should leave, all the advice here says go, i think i see a trend here!!
i'm not saying that you should, however i think waiting for God to tell you its time is not the best course of action because in all likelyhood he won't "tell you".
just my thoughts,
God Bless, Rich
Answer:
It's times like these when God tests our TRUE character.
First I think it is great that you are being patient and are covering the issue in prayer....but, there is a time for patience and a time for diligence. From what I can see this is one of those times for diligence, time for you to step up to the plate if you will. I'm not saying that you should kick down someones door and let them have it (though knocking down doors is kinda fun ) , what I believe you should is to make yourself heard to the leadership. Bring it up every time you see someone, MAKE an issue out of it and eventualy they will have to deal with it.
I'm not suggesting you be insubordinate, but you must be firm in your resolve if you believe something to be wrong. If your goal is one of righteousnes, then God will soften the hearts of those who need to hear the message, and don't forget that titles don't make leaders...God makes leaders by giving them followers.
Answer:
On one hand, you could decide to stay and try to work it out. On the other hand, you could decide to leave.
If you decide to stay, I agree that you need to MAKE an issue of it to the leadership. It's one thing to submit to leadership's authority on church decisions, and the way they deal with certain situations. It's an entirely different thing for them to refuse to pay for property damages that are clearly theirs to pay; for them to damage the equipment that you were nice enough to lend to them for use in their building, and then refuse to compensate you for their incompetence. It's a legal issue. After you force that upon them, you'll likely have their attention. Then you can bring the more spiritual issues to them. However, the very fact that this has happened, and the fact that they are handling it so incompetently, doesn't make it seem like you have much hope of having a successful partnership with them in the future.
Sometimes (actually, I would say MOST of the time), God uses the events and people around us to speak to us and guide us. He opens doors and closes them accordingly, and places good, wise, loving people in your life to offer support and advice. In this case, I would probably assume God's voice in the immense amount of advice and evidence that is telling you that you should leave. I would, probably, take it as God's way of opening and closing doors, and of using the people in my life to speak to me.
Answer:
Whatever you do, don't go tell everybody you meet everything that's been done to you. Speaking as a minister in the church, that is a very good way to destroy a church by dividing it against itself.
Do this:
Go to the pastor and him only. Lay the issues out. Don't make your decision until you hear him out. It would be the easy thing to just take your ball and go home. Ask God what He's trying to show you through this. I can assure you it's a test.
Remember, all leadership is appointed by God. Respect it.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Mr. Squirrel Whatever you do, don't go tell everybody you meet everything that's been done to you. Speaking as a minister in the church, that is a very good way to destroy a church by dividing it against itself.
Do this:
Go to the pastor and him only. Lay the issues out. Don't make your decision until you hear him out. It would be the easy thing to just take your ball and go home. Ask God what He's trying to show you through this. I can assure you it's a test.
Remember, all leadership is appointed by God. Respect it.
I have done this...4 times. I haven't told people NOT involved (co-workers, Grandparents etc.). I've had 4 personal mettings with the pastor, each time I've been turned away for something 'more important to Gods ministry'. I almost didn't write this thread out of respect for my Church and Pastor, however, things are starting to get out of control.
Answer:
Originally Posted by se7enband I have done this...4 times. I haven't told people NOT involved (co-workers, Grandparents etc.). I've had 4 personal mettings with the pastor, each time I've been turned away for something 'more important to Gods ministry'. I almost didn't write this thread out of respect for my Church and Pastor, however, things are starting to get out of control.
My advice would be to step up to the plate. Read your bible and pray, and if you find that what your leadership is doing to be un-biblical call them on it. There is a resounding difference between respecting leadership, and blindly following. It's hard for me to support this without getting too theological, so my advice is that you examine all of the leaders in the old testament.
Answer:
Originally Posted by BlessedNinja My advice would be to step up to the plate. Read your bible and pray, and if you find that what your leadership is doing to be un-biblical call them on it. There is a resounding difference between respecting leadership, and blindly following. It's hard for me to support this without getting too theological, so my advice is that you examine all of the leaders in the old testament. This is a good point. It's one thing to submit to authority when you don't agree with their decisions. However, it's another thing altogether to submit to decisions that are unbiblical, without at least questioning them on it.