Question:
I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine, and we ended up discussing the leading styles of lead worshippers like Matt Redman, David Crowder, Tim Hughes, etc. He was telling me about someone he once knew who was an authority figure in the church he was in at the time, and was actually a professor at a Bible college. I'm not going to get into any more detail than that, but basically, this man didn't like the styles of those kinds of worship leaders.
It was for the reason that they apparently didn't give the group they were leading enough direction. They weren't vocal enough, and didn't give enough direction to the group as to how to respond and when. They would basically just get up there and sing some songs, and occasionally say something, but it was rarely instruction.
I'm not even sure if this is an accurate assessment of their leading styles, and I'm uncomfortable about casting any sort of judgement on their leadership, even though it is vague and skeptical. I know that this isn't safe ground to be walking on; discussing a leader's worship styles. I've had some negative experiences before when it comes to discussing leadership. However, I'm posting this, trusting that it will be discussed with maturity and a Christian attitude.
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And we mods will keep an eye on this one...
I've been thinking alot about worship leadership styles-what is and is not appropriate. It's something we're not going to come to a defined consensus on, but it is most definitely worth discussing.
I'll post more later.
Good thread.
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Originally Posted by agrimes87 I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine, and we ended up discussing the leading styles of lead worshippers like Matt Redman, David Crowder, Tim Hughes, etc. He was telling me about someone he once knew who was an authority figure in the church he was in at the time, and was actually a professor at a Bible college. I'm not going to get into any more detail than that, but basically, this man didn't like the styles of those kinds of worship leaders.

It was for the reason that they apparently didn't give the group they were leading enough direction. They weren't vocal enough, and didn't give enough direction to the group as to how to respond and when. They would basically just get up there and sing some songs, and occasionally say something, but it was rarely instruction.

I'm not even sure if this is an accurate assessment of their leading styles, and I'm uncomfortable about casting any sort of judgement on their leadership, even though it is vague and skeptical. I know that this isn't safe ground to be walking on; discussing a leader's worship styles. I've had some negative experiences before when it comes to discussing leadership. However, I'm posting this, trusting that it will be discussed with maturity and a Christian attitude.
yes that may be true, but I don't worry about it. When they are up there leading worship, alot of people are worshipping. This weekend David Crowder with be leading worship for our AoG South Texas Youth Convention and I bet thousands of youth will be worshipping.
Answer:
Originally Posted by agrimes87 I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine, and we ended up discussing the leading styles of lead worshippers like Matt Redman, David Crowder, Tim Hughes, etc. He was telling me about someone he once knew who was an authority figure in the church he was in at the time, and was actually a professor at a Bible college. I'm not going to get into any more detail than that, but basically, this man didn't like the styles of those kinds of worship leaders.
It was for the reason that they apparently didn't give the group they were leading enough direction. They weren't vocal enough, and didn't give enough direction to the group as to how to respond and when. They would basically just get up there and sing some songs, and occasionally say something, but it was rarely instruction.
I'm not even sure if this is an accurate assessment of their leading styles, and I'm uncomfortable about casting any sort of judgement on their leadership, even though it is vague and skeptical. I know that this isn't safe ground to be walking on; discussing a leader's worship styles. I've had some negative experiences before when it comes to discussing leadership. However, I'm posting this, trusting that it will be discussed with maturity and a Christian attitude.
Not to make this hymns vs. choruses part umpteen, but their leadership/that type of leadership is certainly way more vocal and instructional than the leading I am used to with hymns. Notice I said "I am used to", I say this because I am speaking solely from the experience I have and not in broad general terms. In our church, we have "blended worship". This pretty much only applies to singing, so therefore we sing hymns and we sing choruses. For the hymns, the choir is the "leader" as there isn't anyone else leading, when we sing choruses, we have a worship leader who vocally leads us, usually prays between songs, etc. So maybe I'm missing the point of your post, but this is my experience...
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Originally Posted by Dave_01 Not to make this hymns vs. choruses part umpteen, but their leadership/that type of leadership is certainly way more vocal and instructional than the leading I am used to with hymns. Notice I said "I am used to", I say this because I am speaking solely from the experience I have and not in broad general terms. In our church, we have "blended worship". This pretty much only applies to singing, so therefore we sing hymns and we sing choruses. For the hymns, the choir is the "leader" as there isn't anyone else leading, when we sing choruses, we have a worship leader who vocally leads us, usually prays between songs, etc. So maybe I'm missing the point of your post, but this is my experience... Many worship leaders give direction...for example, "let's lift our hands", "just start singing your own song to God", "let's get down on our knees in reverence", "let's be silent for a moment and listen to God", "let's clap our hands", etc. The guy I'm talking about was basically saying that many "popular" worship leaders don't do this, or not often enough.
Or at least, I think that's what he was trying to say.
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this man's observation was accurate though. however, less actuall directing of the congregatiion is the trend of late, it seems to work quite well when leading a group who is going to be more a post-modern mindset. obviously older generations are not gonna be as comfortable with it. one isn't right and the other wrong, just an issue who is present...
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I have noticed with Matt Redman (just from watching his DVD), that he pretty much does nothing when it comes to talking or anything, he just sings the songs, the band plays, etc.
But it seemed like his other vocalists did more of the leading by being the example; i.e. lifting hands, etc.
I don't know if that adds to the thread or anything.
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Originally Posted by parkway I have noticed with Matt Redman (just from watching his DVD), that he pretty much does nothing when it comes to talking or anything, he just sings the songs, the band plays, etc.
But it seemed like his other vocalists did more of the leading by being the example; i.e. lifting hands, etc.
I don't know if that adds to the thread or anything. I think it does. If there are leaders leading by example, apart from the song leader, then the congregation knows to follow them. But a problem arises when this isn't clear to them, or when people have their eyes closed, or aren't in a position to see the leaders on the platform. It's not a good way to lead, IMO. There needs to be vocal direction, which is sometimes obvious in the lyrics of the song, but not most of the time.
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Originally Posted by agrimes87 Many worship leaders give direction...for example, "let's lift our hands", "just start singing your own song to God", "let's get down on our knees in reverence", "let's be silent for a moment and listen to God", "let's clap our hands", etc. The guy I'm talking about was basically saying that many "popular" worship leaders don't do this, or not often enough.
Or at least, I think that's what he was trying to say.
ok, I see what you're saying, and I will say having seen Tim hughes and DCB recently, I felt it was a very worshipful experience, and there seemed to be no lack of leading in those ways at all. Can't speak on Matt Redman since I've never seen him.
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This is a very good thread.
When I look at a lot of todays "Worship leaders"(not saying this sarcasticly), I tend to find that a lot of their styles tend to give way to sensationalism(spelling), which IMHO is a bad thing. We being human can't see peoples hearts, but we can see their works and I'm of the impression that too many people judge a "worship service/concert" by how it makes them feel.
I'm not saying that we should all be stoic robots, on the contrary I think we should enjoy singing to the lord...it should be fun, but dimming the lights and telling everyone to get on their knees and put up their hands is IMO trying to envoke an emotional responce. I believe that we should leave it to God to touch our hearts, and we shouldn't be on our knees in a public area where eveyone can see...we're supposed to do this where no one else can see.
"Matthew 6:5 - "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. "
This is just my opinion, and I don't mean to start an arguement, but if you feel lik I have misinterpreted scripture then please let me know in an objective and understanding way.
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Originally Posted by BlessedNinja This is a very good thread.
When I look at a lot of todays "Worship leaders"(not saying this sarcasticly), I tend to find that a lot of their styles tend to give way to sensationalism(spelling), which IMHO is a bad thing. We being human can't see peoples hearts, but we can see their works and I'm of the impression that too many people judge a "worship service/concert" by how it makes them feel.
I'm not saying that we should all be stoic robots, on the contrary I think we should enjoy singing to the lord...it should be fun, but dimming the lights and telling everyone to get on their knees and put up their hands is IMO trying to envoke an emotional responce. I believe that we should leave it to God to touch our hearts, and we shouldn't be on our knees in a public area where eveyone can see...we're supposed to do this where no one else can see.
"Matthew 6:5 - "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. "
This is just my opinion, and I don't mean to start an arguement, but if you feel lik I have misinterpreted scripture then please let me know in an objective and understanding way.
I'm not trying to argue either...but isn't that scripture talking about the intent of the hearts? IOW, the pharisee's were praying simply to be seen and heard, not to commune with God. If we follow your logic, it seems we should ban all church services and fellowship; that seems extreme but that seems to be where your argument would lead us ultimately.
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Dave's right. It's all about what's on the heart. I can't agrue that many people who (to use BlessedNinja's example) get down on their knees and raise their hands are doing it to evoke an emotion within themselves, whereas worship should have the opposite effect; emotions should cause us to have these responses.
However, having said that, I do believe that many people's hearts really are in the right place. I have been in worship services where the leader has asked us to do just that, and it wasn't for the purpose of an emotional response; it was because we were so much in awe of our God and his power, glory, splendor, majesty, beauty, i could go on forever....that it was an appropriate response to drop to our knees in reverence, bowing to the king, because of his supreme Lordship, and because we should all be burning eternally, but instead he sacrificed himself to save us. I could go on explaining why we would drop to our knees, but that's obvious. What I'm trying to say is, the emotion evoked the response, and not vice versa, and so it was genuine, and it was honestly one of the most amazing worship experiences I've ever had.
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My wife randomly forwarded me this a few minutes ago. It seems entirely applicable to this thread:
Verse of the Day: Psalm 33:3 (NIV)
"Sing to Him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
Al's Application for Today...
This verse represents many others that basically say the same thing. We are to sing a new song joyfully. The implication is that we are to put our hearts and souls into our singing to God. Secular music (our old song) usually focuses our thoughts and emotions on worldly pleasures, but Christian music (our new song) helps us focus our thoughts and emotions on the riches of Jesus Christ. Because salvation comes by grace and not an emotional experience, I find that many Christians are afraid of becoming emotional in their spiritual worship and singing. But did you ever try to shout for joy for something you didn’t have an emotional attachment to?
What happens in a ball game when the home team gets a game-winning touchdown or hits a game winning home run in the bottom of the last inning? The fans of the home team go nuts, don’t they? The fans of the other side are usually much quieter. Why? Because the home team fans are emotionally attached to the home team. That’s why they get so emotional and shout for joy! The same is true with Jesus Christ. We can’t really fulfill this command to “shout joyfully to the Lord”, unless we have a passion for the One we are shouting about. Christian music can help us develop this emotional relationship.
(Excerpt from website of Rev. Al Menconi)
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I'm of the "don't say or do a whole lot" family of worship leaders. Partially, I think that's because I become concerned about getting in the way. Sometimes I think that leaders who give copious directions make it more difficult to direct one's focus in worship.
Nate
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Originally Posted by nate95366 I'm of the "don't say or do a whole lot" family of worship leaders. Partially, I think that's because I become concerned about getting in the way. Sometimes I think that leaders who give copious directions make it more difficult to direct one's focus in worship.
Nate
I think it's more the way it's done than the amount said or done, if you get my drift.