Question:
First, I hope that I am posting this in the correct forum......I was wondering if I could get some ideas from any of you as to how your praise bands keep the tempos consistent? This seems like it should be relatively simple, however, we tend to end up across the board on a lot of our songs each week. I am the Worship Leader and play guitar. We have a drummer that shows up once in a while (part of the problem) and piano player at one level of ability and a keyboard at another level of ability. Prior to a practice session, I will play through stuff and sing alone with a metronome to get a general "tempo". I give one strum to indicate that we are about to start a song. We have pre-scripted out intro (usually the refrain or three or four measures depending....)then I like to stay on the last chord and "feel" when appropriate to start singing. The drummer will sometimes come in on the intro and sometimes when we start singing. I realize that this is backward, but she is so sporatic in her attendance that it would be hard to rely on her to set the tempos. We are trying to accomodate this because when she does play, the addition of the drum sound is wonderful and the congregation loves it. Anyhow, often times the keyboard goes one direction, the piano player goes another and the drums yet another. By this point, I can hardly reel everyone back in with just my guitar (or at least it seems that way).
I would appreciate anything anyone of you has to offer as far as help!
Thanks!
Answer:
Hmm, that sound like a tough situation. The job of a drummer is simply to keep time - keep tempo. If you don't have a drummer consistently, then I guess another way to make sure the tempo is consistent is to either have a click track for each song that can only be heard by the musicians, or somehow use a metronome.
If you feel like you can consistently keep tempo with your guitar, you can adjust your strumming pattern to be a tempo-setter.
That's all I can think of for now.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Jo1967 First, I hope that I am posting this in the correct forum......I was wondering if I could get some ideas from any of you as to how your praise bands keep the tempos consistent?
Don't use fermatas. Seriously. Unless you're working with only a very few musicians (say, a pianist and an organist) and are able to perform appropriate conducting signs while you sing, it's best to keep everything on beat (unless, of course, you're the only one playing at any given point in a song... then you can do whatever).
This seems like it should be relatively simple, however, we tend to end up across the board on a lot of our songs each week. I am the Worship Leader and play guitar. We have a drummer that shows up once in a while (part of the problem) and piano player at one level of ability and a keyboard at another level of ability.
It sounds like you're just having a problem of everyone playing and no one listening. Try to get your other musicians to listen carefully to what everyone else in the band is doing; that's the most sure-fire way I know to stay at one tempo through a song.
Prior to a practice session, I will play through stuff and sing alone with a metronome to get a general "tempo". I give one strum to indicate that we are about to start a song. We have pre-scripted out intro (usually the refrain or three or four measures depending....)then I like to stay on the last chord and "feel" when appropriate to start singing.
This extended "feel" session might be tough, because a lot of musicians (especially drummers and bass players, for example) rely on specific rhythmic patterns (such as four-measure units, etc) to time when to perform things such as fills or walk-downs to the tonic note. This is what I was talking about with the fermata thing earlier. It's not clear to me whether you have the band just play the final chord once and then you let it ring and come in some time later, or whether you just have them keep strumming the chord and then you come in a few beats later. Either is kind of a messy way to handle switching from the intro to the singing. I think it would behoove you to find a way to specify exactly how long the last chord of the intro is going to last (typically, it'll be a full measure) before you start singing. If the band knows this, they can time their fills, strumming, and whatever else to fit with the coming-in of the singing, and I think you'll end up with a more unified sound.
Oh, that brings up another issue. In addition to listening to the other members of the band, your instrumentalists should learn to listen to your vocalists (you, that is, in this case). In P&W music especially, the words are the most important thing, and your band needs to know that and play appropriately.
The drummer will sometimes come in on the intro and sometimes when we start singing. I realize that this is backward, but she is so sporatic in her attendance that it would be hard to rely on her to set the tempos. We are trying to accomodate this because when she does play, the addition of the drum sound is wonderful and the congregation loves it. Anyhow, often times the keyboard goes one direction, the piano player goes another and the drums yet another. By this point, I can hardly reel everyone back in with just my guitar (or at least it seems that way).
Again, this definitely sounds like an instance of everyone playing and no one listening.
In His love,
Nate
Answer:
Originally Posted by psalm63adam Hmm, that sound like a tough situation. The job of a drummer is simply to keep time - keep tempo. If you don't have a drummer consistently, then I guess another way to make sure the tempo is consistent is to either have a click track for each song that can only be heard by the musicians, or somehow use a metronome.
If you feel like you can consistently keep tempo with your guitar, you can adjust your strumming pattern to be a tempo-setter.
That's all I can think of for now.
Thanks. We recently purchased two big monitors, so at this point we have my guitar and voice as the main thing for everyone to follow. Even the drummer. Simply as something to go from. For some reason, it seems like they are just not listening. I guess I will have to address that again. I am not familar with click tracks. It seems as though that might be restrictive in that we try to go back and repeat if the Spirit so moves or intentionally slow down at the end of songs...........
Answer:
Originally Posted by psalm63adam Hmm, that sound like a tough situation. The job of a drummer is simply to keep time - keep tempo.
Awww, c'mon... let's give our percussive specialists their due.
I don't think drummers are time-keepers at all, really. That's the job of the whole band. No one can afford to stop thinking about the rhythm and metre of the song, because it underlies anything and everything that you could ever play during the song.
I prefer to think of drums more as color / dynamic instruments, really. Most people will hardly notice if the piano player rarely changes volume, but if the drummer doesn't perform some nice fills and doesn't add an occasional stereotypical cymbal crash on the downbeat of the chorus, many people will be greatly confused and feel like something is missing. If you think your drummer is nothing but a time-keeper, instruct him / her to play some death-metal double-bass or some jazzy syncopated ska beats next time you play a nice laid back tune like "We Fall Down" or something like that. You'll notice.
A good drummer can do so much in the way of changing the entire feel of a song (think about it; what distinguishes jazz from all other genres? the shuffle, always performed on the ride; what about hip-hop? all about the drums; what about punk? snare on the upbeat; etc; you can recognize most any style of music most easily by what the drums are playing). Not to mention the insane amount of timbres that are available to a well-equipped drummer, for creating all kinds of different moods. Finally, drums (contrary to popular belief) are especially well-suited to changes in dynamics due to the way that the timbre of each instrument changes dramatically with small changes in volume.
In His love,
Nate
Answer:
I wasn't saying that the only job of a drummer was to keep time - but it's better for your drummer to keep time and not play anything fancy if his fanciness takes him away from establishing a consistent tempo.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Nate insane
Interesting that you used this word, o brother of insanedrummer.
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Originally Posted by Jo1967 It seems as though that might be restrictive in that we try to go back and repeat if the Spirit so moves or intentionally slow down at the end of songs...........
It would be very restrictive. Which is the point of having the click track. It depends on what you think is important at this time, establishing an even, consistent tempo throughout the song or having the ability to change the song on the fly.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Nate Don't use fermatas. Seriously. Unless you're working with only a very few musicians (say, a pianist and an organist) and are able to perform appropriate conducting signs while you sing, it's best to keep everything on beat (unless, of course, you're the only one playing at any given point in a song... then you can do whatever).
I had not thought of it this way...fermatas. I guess in some instances I do tend to do that. I have some feeble body motions that I try to do to indicate when to come in and it seems so obvious to me, but it is not always workings.
It sounds like you're just having a problem of everyone playing and no one listening. Try to get your other musicians to listen carefully to what everyone else in the band is doing; that's the most sure-fire way I know to stay at one tempo through a song.
That would be accurate to say about our musicians. Not all of of the time, but more than half. A lot of it is the level of ability. We have a small church and the praise band has grown considerably, but is made up of beginners to mediocre. My attitude has been lets take the willing and committed to get established. However, I think we are at a crossroads here in going to the next level. I use the CCLI website for a lot of our music and that is the most current contempory praise stuff. We have ventured "out there" now (as opposed to playing the older choruses), but it seems to require a bit more of the musicians. I think the ability levels are the problem. However, it does not seem like an option to ask people to step down......there are so few to choose from and I wrestle with the fact that when God hears it it is beautiful.
This extended "feel" session might be tough, because a lot of musicians (especially drummers and bass players, for example) rely on specific rhythmic patterns (such as four-measure units, etc) to time when to perform things such as fills or walk-downs to the tonic note. This is what I was talking about with the fermata thing earlier. It's not clear to me whether you have the band just play the final chord once and then you let it ring and come in some time later, or whether you just have them keep strumming the chord and then you come in a few beats later. Either is kind of a messy way to handle switching from the intro to the singing. I think it would behoove you to find a way to specify exactly how long the last chord of the intro is going to last (typically, it'll be a full measure) before you start singing. If the band knows this, they can time their fills, strumming, and whatever else to fit with the coming-in of the singing, and I think you'll end up with a more unified sound.
Basically what I do is play one strum prior to the "intro" so as to get everyone on the same page (literally, even the singers are sometimes looking away!). Then, I make a gesture with my upper body so as to indicate NOW. We always practice with all musicians coming in at that point on a preset intro. Occassionally, I will add (and they know this) a measure or two of the last chord on to the "intro" so as to make it feel more appropriate. Some songs seem to lend themselves to this. We work almost exclusively off of lead sheets, so it is just a template.
Oh, that brings up another issue. In addition to listening to the other members of the band, your instrumentalists should learn to listen to your vocalists (you, that is, in this case). In P&W music especially, the words are the most important thing, and your band needs to know that and play appropriately.
You are right here. I think we need to get our piano player to use a monitor, too.
Again, this definitely sounds like an instance of everyone playing and no one listening.
In His love,
Nate
Thanks!
Answer:
I think I agree with the other Nate that the job of the drummer isn't necessarily to keep time, but a good drummer can provide (if able) a rather continuous reference as to where the beat is, should another player/singer get "lost" somehow.
I definitely agree that this sounds like an "everybody plays, but nobody listens" type of situation. In my experience, there isn't a quick way to change this, but the first step is to SIMPLIFY things sonically. Emphasize that what is played is sometimes less important than what is not. During practice, have two instruments play the same passage together. These types of activities will train the instrumentalists to hear the other instruments, and then the vocals, and finally the whole of the group a lot better. A band is a lot more than the sum of its parts, and it just seems like your group will need to simplify while they're collectively figuring that out.
Nate
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When we are having tempo issues, we have found the best thing to do is go all acoustic, and get the drummer off of the kit and onto something like a djembe or bongos (this is in rehearsal). We just circle-up, and do a set without any amplification.
This fosters listening, and brings everyone together. It also creates an opportunity for some really cool worship, which I think should be the main focus of rehearsal anyhow.
Answer:
I recomend ableton live 4 or higher. It is a non linear loop click track software that David Crowder recomends. You need to program your own loops or do what I did and download a gig or 2 of samples. You can use it live in various ways. Either get somone who is willing just to run the software via Laptop with an output to your monitors perferably IEM's. There's a tempo button at the top which can be tapped to set the meter and then the user jumps through the various loops ex. chorus/verse/bridge. Or you can run it on your own using midi commands. I could program my Boss GT3 to set the meter of ableton by mapping one of the buttons just as a tap button so I can tap with my foot to set the meter then I can use a seperate volume pedal to output the loop to the congragation if I want. It's really good for practice and we set it up in linear mode (plays in order start to finish). Once I have someone who would be willing to run the software I would encorporate it into regular worship.

Many top musicians use click tracks even along with giant orchestras and use meter controls. Barbara Strisan (however you spell that) her conductor has an optical sensor over his music stand that as his batton passes over, it sends a midi signal to the controller setting the meter. Pretty cool.
Don't view click tracks as limiting their are lots of options out there you just have to find them, It works well for David Crowder.