Question:
I was thinking about getting the guitar and music packed up for church tomorrow, and though that I would run this by everyone to get your thoughts.
We have been attending a small, mainline church for about three years now. The town that we live in has been in decline for many years, and we came to this church from another church that had closed its doors. When we started attending there the church was growing, and had just gone to "modern" music a few months before we got there. After about a year, I joined the music ministry team playing guitar and bass. Growth leveled off and the pastor accepted another call about a year ago. Since then, attendance has gone down, leaving only the older people who have grown up there. All that remains of music minsitry are two singers, the music director on keyboard and vocals and me on (mostly) acoustic guitar. We think that only a few (maybe 8-9 of the remaining folks) want to stay with contemporary music.
On Christmas eve, the music director was out of town visiting her serously ill grandson, which left us with no keyboard, specificially no organ. I can't play keys. I put together what I could, and my 13 year old son worked out a couple of songs on Keyboard, but since he has only had a year of lessons to that point, he couldn't do the all the songs for both morning and evening services. I though the music went OK.
Since the Sunday before Christmas, we've heard three families complain about the music, including "people are leaving this church because of the music" last weekend. We only do two or three comtomporary songs at the beginning of the service, a couple of soft ones during communion, and traditional hymns before the sermon and to close the service.
I'm thinking that maybe the best thing to do would be walking away from at least the music, if not the church. I know that such decisions are to be made with much prayer, but besides that I'm not sure what to do.
Has anybody else been in this situation, when did you know it was time to go?
Answer:
I'm not sure I understand your motivation for wanting to leave...
Answer:
I think you should discuss the situation with the music director, Pastor, and any church leadership/coucil you have in place. Find out what their outlook is on where they feel the church going and what music style would be appropriate. It's possible they want to stay the course and see if God will carry them through this hard time, or it's possible they are ready to return to a traditional style of worship, but don't want to hurt you or have you leave the church over it. We've had some conflict in our church over the modern verses traditional. Some of the older folks have sometimes told our pastor they would leave if we continued to make that "rock and roll noise". He wanted the church to thrive and grow with younger families however and just told us to keep doing what we were doing and to send all complaints to him. We do a blended service now, which has something for everyone, and something not for everyone. Every week I get many compliments, and some complaints. Pray about it, seek guidance from your leadership.
Answer:
That's a tough one, brother.
Sometimes we see a situation in decline and we think it's time to leave but God might be thinking it's time for faithfulness.
I would say that the leadership of the church need to get themselves in deep prayer and really seek what God's will is for the church (as should be done at any church regardless of the situation they're in) and then do that.
Maybe the traditional model of church is not what is supposed to be happening there...or maybe it's exactly what needs to happen, complete with an organ, hymns, hymnals, robes, etc...
Maybe it's also time to examine why all of the other people left...and why the folks still there stay.
I haven't lived through that exact situation but I have been a guest at churches where that situation was happening and it was sad to witness it as it's occuring.
I'll be praying that the folks at your church have a yearning for God to breathe new life into His house.
Answer:
My initial reaction is something like this...
1) It sounds like all the folks who were going to your church just because they liked the pastor are gone now.
2) It sounds like all the folks who were going to your church just because they liked the music are either gone or planning their exit.
It sounds like the only people that are left are either:
a) too dumb to leave
or
b) the people who might just be willing to get really deep into worship and really take their dependence on God to a new level, even if the songs are just sung a capella or to a CD or something like that.
I guess from what you've told me, you've described a place that's absolutely ripe for a fresh view on what it means to be a church, including the area of singing and worship. If I were moving into your town and heard about what's going on, I'd be very interested in attending your church just because of the possibility that it sounds like there is.
That's just my take, though, and I'm feeling kinda wierd tonight, so take it for what it's worth.
Nate
Answer:
Thanks for the responses.
There are lots of things going on there that I can't get into here in a reasonable short post, so here is the thumbnail version.
There isn't much leadership to go to. We havn't replaced the pastor, and won't for at least a month, maybe not till summer when the seminary grads are available. The music director is very gifted, (MA in music) she can play and sing anything, but she is not a member of the church. She attends service at her own church on Saturday night and play in our church on Sunday. The elders all grew up there and don't want to face the possibility of the church going down hill. They just want this problem, as well as a bunch of other problems in their lives to go away. Most of them are too old to be as involved as elders need to be, if that makes any sense.
The thing is that amost all of the people that are left are, for the most part, old. I don't mean any disrespect with that. The want to continue having services the way that they have had for 60, 70 or 80+ years. I have no doubt that there is comfort in that for people facing the uncertian and upleasat changes in the latter stages of their lives. The choice that I feel that I'm facing is leave at least the music, and force the abandonment of anything comtemporary, and sort of let them have their service the way that they want it, and not force anything "new" on them, but I think that doing this will make any growth difficult, and possibly drive the few remaining young people out. These aren't issues that the current leadership wants to face, so I'm on my own as far as the people there are concerned, so I've posted this for council. thanks again for you help.
Answer:
See, here's the problem I'm having. You want the music in a certain style. The old people want the music in a certain style. What makes your style the right one and their style the one that "makes growth difficult?"
Answer:
Originally Posted by bobthecockroach See, here's the problem I'm having. You want the music in a certain style. The old people want the music in a certain style. What makes your style the right one and their style the one that "makes growth difficult?"
It could very easily be more than that. The church does not sound very alive, no offense to the OP. I agree with you, though, that the style doesn't matter as long as it's filled with the Holy Spirit. There's no "right" style. However, from what he's describing, that may only be treating a symptom, not the actual problem. I'll let a wiser, more knowledgeable person help, though, as my experience with this is not as vast as I'd like.
Answer:
I'm not saying that the style that I like is the right one, that's why I'm considering dropping music.
The reason that traditional music isn't conductive to growth is that younger unchurched folks don't relate to hymns and organ music. That style of music (and other things) give the impression that the church is for "old people," not them. I don't relate to it, and I'm 50.
Its amazing what keeps people away. I heard a pastor speak the other day, and he didn't want to wear the robes that are customary in mainline churches because he believed that it gave the folk that he was working with the impression that he thought that he was better than them.
The church isn't very alive. The big question is what is does God want for it, a place for the older folks to be gently usherd to Him (nothihg wrong with that) and closes its doors, or a place of discomfort for those folks (who face many trials and are in need of comfort) where ongiong outreach is going on. It may be that the outreach (and my family) are for another congregation.
Answer:
See, I'm 20 and I do relate to hymns. I also think the organ is one of the coolest instruments ever made.
I'm inclined to think that other people my age could also learn to relate to hymns, but that's just what it will take: learning. There are some wonderful hymns, and if the younger generation is really focused on worship and not just on cool music, they should be able to relate to these hymns.
Answer:
I'm curious, what is the church like beside the music? Do you feel God at work in other areas of the church? One thing I've seen is that older folks are less likely to respond to contemporary music or anything that is a change. Unfortunately, there is little to offer the new generation and the church may be in the last stage of its life unless it recognizes that this generation needs a place to worship too. If not there, then they will go somewhere else.
My guess is that your son will help make that decision for your family. He needs to be encouraged to better himself, and it doesn't seem like he will get much of that there. We can only pray that things will change. Other than that, your children need to be fed too.
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Thanks Hopeful, you answered the question.
Answer:
Originally Posted by bobthecockroach ...if the younger generation is really focused on worship and not just on cool music, they should be able to relate to these hymns.
Yes, and they should know that hymns ARE very "cool music" but many people associate a hymn with a Kimball organ being played with several choice "blue" notes and a tempo that can't be grasped and a singer or singers who use vibrato as a weapon.
By the same token, many people associate contemporary songs with a beginner-level group of musicians who play too loud and seem to repeat the same thing over and over and over...
What people want to hear is usually something that is pleasing to their ear and not a distraction regardless if it's "Lord I Lift Your Name on High" or if it's "Blessed Assurance".
Most importantly, what people want to know is that the music is being performed by someone who genuinely hungers and thirsts for God.
They want that from their pastor, from their music ministers, from their ushers, their kids church workers, etc...and it's been my experience that the style of what someone is delivering to them matters little if they can see Jesus at work in that person or persons.
If a church is dying then maybe the question to ask and answer for those folks who are left is "Am I seeking first His kingdom and His righteousness?".
Answer:
tricky one.
try doing old hymns in a contemporary style.
Robin Mark does this alot.
As do the bands at a few of the big festivals over here.
Be thou my vision ROCKS!!!!!
and sorry, but for 99% of teens, the organ is ancient history along with the balck & white silent movies they accompanied.
In our church we blend organ led hymns and contemporary worship songs.
we are really fortunate that most of our "silver threads" are really supportive of the contemporary stuff.
Answer:
Originally Posted by martinedwards and sorry, but for 99% of teens, the organ is ancient history along with the balck & white silent movies they accompanied. And for 99% of seniors, modern praise and worship is just as foreign. Why do we automatically favor youth?