Question:
I keep having this picture of a "music ministry ministry" type of activity entering my head and churning around there for weeks on end. Basically, I just see so many music ministers / worship leaders who are [often quite literally] thrown into such roles with very little experience or knowledge of how to perform that ministry to their fullest (or even at all). The existence and relatively high traffic of this forum is evidence of this, as are the multiple "worship leader conferences" put on by Integrity and the like, as well as the sudden influx of products designed especially for novice music ministers (I'm thinking Christian-themed guitars, music and worship software, songbooks with guitar lessons in them, etc, etc). There is a void here that I believe I (and probably many others) have the potential to fill, and, thereby, to assist the Roman Catholic Church in lifting up praises to God. I try my best on here to impart such knowledge as I have that I feel would be useful to the end of better equipping fellow music ministers, but I often feel as though I could do more.
I have an online class this semester entitled "Music Management," and I have selected as my semester project a fictitious entity that will perform many of the functions that I have just described. I would like to know, as a student and as a fellow minister, what areas you feel are most in need of special training or instruction in your own ministry, as well as in the ministry of other music ministers that you know. Also, I would like to know what sort of form you could see such an endeavor as what I am describing taking as it comes to fruition. Would it be a conference? Would it be more like a consulting firm that goes to individual churches? Would it be a one-on-one conversation between ministers? Would it be a Christian discussion forum such as this one? What would it look like if it were real? Finally, I would to like to know whether this is something that you think is both necessary and beneficial to the Church, and, correspondingly, whether you think you would eventually be interested in such a ministry (on either side, the teaching or the learning).
Ok... shoot!
In His love,
Nate
Answer:
I remember my Music Administration class in seminary. The context was for a very traditional Southern Baptist music ministry, but the approach was applicable to today. There were two basic prongs of the curriculum fork. The first prong was on the church leadership roll of the music minister. The second was the nuts and bolts of actually running the music ministry of the local church.
To be honest, I’m not always looking for tips on the “spiritual” part of the job. Rather, I seek handles for efficiency and musicality. How to select and implement a song based upon theme and appropriateness for congregational singing. How to plan and lead a rehearsal. How to communicate with the pastor, other people on the platform, and the congregation. How to fix an audio problem. That’s just off the top of my head.
As for the first prong, again I’m not as interested in the “spiritual” part as I am the roles and responsibilities of the music minister (volunteer or paid) in relation to church staff. Perhaps a downside to the growth of the worship industry (and don't kid yourself if you think it isn't one) over that past 20 years or so is the creation and elevation of the title Worship Leader. We’ve even flipped the term on its ear in reaction by calling it Lead Worshipper. Frankly, I find it all a little silly at best; self-serving at worst.
Have I created some talking points? Cheesed off a few of you?
This sounds like a great project, Nate. I'd like to play along.
Answer:
Nate, great thought! I'm also a minister/theory student wishing there was a different angle from which to approach equipping leaders.
So many worship leaders write material that shares wonderful insights in to pursuing the heart of God as the "Number 1 thing." It absolutely is the "Number 1 thing," but after it comes Number 2, the "practical side" which I think you see as lacking. It should come as no surprise when we see the materials teaching the practical are far fewer.
We need training from someone who has been there...simple as that. In the rest of the world, when we care about learning something, we take a class and learn from a knowledgeable teacher. Can we model after that?
Workshops are great, they get closer to equipping, but not enough to keep someone growing and learning in a one or two day session. Thus, I would propose for your consideration a forum giving more than an session or two, yet less intense than a college course. Specifically, this could be an evening class where a beginner/intermediate could learn from veterans on a regular basis. It could last a couple months, giving opportunity to learn new concepts, take it home to your ministry, apply it, and evaluate it at the next meeting. Study it, apply it, asses it, and reinforce it!
Imagine how much more we could learn...basic theory as it applies to worship, modulations that work, leading the team, working though problems in team dynamics, networking to local mentors/consultants for ongoing development, one-on-one time to teach each other, class discussion, how to use the circle of fifths, chord types, basic harmony, ministry purpose and direction, learn were to find the resources you really need, band blending principals or voicings, and so on...
I know this requires a major time commitment, but challenge us! Compensation for worship instructors is more than fair and gives monetary value to the student’s “learning experience.” I would pay to be a student in such a quality program. If a teacher, I would be more inclined to teach if I knew I could get a little compensation for my time and effort. And of course there would be building rental cost to host the classes/workshops in a central location, but break all that up between a group of aspiring leaders and the expense is nothing compared to the return and growth that could result.
I would defiantly be a teacher or a student.
Answer:
Yes, and everything Tony said too!
Answer:
As both of you have alluded to, it is the practical side of the music ministry that I am more concerned with.
Originally Posted by jaredburns Imagine how much more we could learn...basic theory as it applies to worship, modulations that work, leading the team, working though problems in team dynamics, networking to local mentors/consultants for ongoing development, one-on-one time to teach each other, class discussion, how to use the circle of fifths, chord types, basic harmony, ministry purpose and direction, learn were to find the resources you really need, band blending principals or voicings, and so on...
Yes, these are exactly the type of things that I am talking about. Closely related to this entire issue is the fact that more and more I find myself listening to great Christian music (Iona, Joy Electric, et al ad infinitum) and thinking something like "Wow, I just heard a canon!" or "What a great use of texture!" and I somehow feel like I need (and, also, others need me to) to tell somebody else about all of this somehow. There's one particular Iona song that I have thought of at least three separate music-theory-related mini-lessons that I could teach using it. I would love to be able to incorporate this sort of thing into this music ministry ministry idea.
I would defiantly be a teacher or a student.
HA! This may be the best typo ever!
In His love,
Nate
Answer:
I particularly like this model that Jared proposed:
"... a forum giving more than a session or two, yet less intense than a college course."
Answer:
Originally Posted by Nate HA! This may be the best typo ever!
Not a typo. I'm not a veteran, but I could teach plenty of theory, composition, band arrangement, and management. Still I'd also love to be involved and learning from others.
Answer:
Originally Posted by jaredburns Not a typo. I'm not a veteran, but I could teach plenty of theory, composition, band arrangement, and management. Still I'd also love to be involved and learning from others.
would your fist be raised as you teach or something?
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Nate, I like you. I like your threads. This one especially. I will sticky it that way people will see it more better. *smile*
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I'm tired, so this may be a little scattered, but...
As to format, I think there are a lot of conferences out there already, and they probably cover most of what is useful to be covered in a conference. I think some of the one-on-one consulting aspects might have some room to be discovered here. It seems to me that a lot of the real nitty gritty stuff (circle of fifths, modulations, chord types) has tons of info on it all over the place. I would see value in some of the things that are going to be specific to each church: team dynamics, how each instrument fits in the mix, what kind of leadership the congregation might need...
For myself, I think the things I'm spending time thinking about right now are sort of at the intersection of the spiritual and the practical. Like, on most songs, our pianist plays the melody with the singers. This seems to be helpful to the congregation as far as learning and singing along. But, from a musical/artistic standpoint, I don't care for it, because the piano lacks the inflection of a human voice, and the music seems more sterile. Which is more important?
Answer:
Originally Posted by Jay Tea I'm tired, so this may be a little scattered, but...
I don't mind scatter-brained-ed-ness.
As to format, I think there are a lot of conferences out there already, and they probably cover most of what is useful to be covered in a conference.
Indeed.
I think some of the one-on-one consulting aspects might have some room to be discovered here.
This is the particular aspect I'm covering the most in-depth in my class project. I pushed the idea to my professor as a "music ministry consulting firm consisting of small teams of theological, practical, musical, and technological specialists" and he bought it.
It seems to me that a lot of the real nitty gritty stuff (circle of fifths, modulations, chord types) has tons of info on it all over the place.
This is very true. I guess I have more than one idea here, actually.
You see, I am in love with music theory and music history. I think there is absolutely nothing better for a musician to learn than the same things any other artist would learn: how to do what you want to do, and what others have done before. Without these two basic things, you lose either creativity or originality, and the work becomes either chaotic or cliche.
My dream job and my dream as a Christian musician would be to find / create a way for me to impart my love and knowledge of music theory and music history to other Christian musicians in a manner that makes it relevant to them. I know one of the most common complaints in my lower-level theory classes at my university was that "none of this stuff is still used today, and I don't see how it relates to anything I'm interested in." My first music theory professor would baffle these questioners by playing a System Of A Down song, for example, and showing how various theoretical principles were used heavily in it (I think he actually had a baroque counterpoint example from "Aerials," in particular). I would love to be able to do the same thing in the context of Christian music, and worship music in particular. This, it seems to me, is something quite distinct from mere "what is the circle of fifths?" style questions, and something that, I would hope, would be beneficial to people.
I would see value in some of the things that are going to be specific to each church: team dynamics, how each instrument fits in the mix, what kind of leadership the congregation might need...
Yes, this is more of the thing that my semester project is looking at. These are actually some of the exact problems I proposed to my professor that my fictitious firm could "solve."
For myself, I think the things I'm spending time thinking about right now are sort of at the intersection of the spiritual and the practical. Like, on most songs, our pianist plays the melody with the singers. This seems to be helpful to the congregation as far as learning and singing along. But, from a musical/artistic standpoint, I don't care for it, because the piano lacks the inflection of a human voice, and the music seems more sterile. Which is more important?
You may be getting a little too deep for what I had originally envisioned in this thread.

I think these sorts of topics would be best handled in a discussion-forum based operation, but with, as Jared mentioned earlier, depth closer to that of a college course. It would require some kind of discussion between ministers, but then some kind of external application of what was discussed, and then a debriefing of sorts at the end to find out what everyone learned. This is a fabulous idea, I think, just not quite part of my original idea... which is just fine, that's why I made this thread.
In His love,
Nate
Answer:
Originally Posted by Tony I remember my Music Administration class in seminary. The context was for a very traditional Southern Baptist music ministry, but the approach was applicable to today. There were two basic prongs of the curriculum fork. The first prong was on the church leadership roll of the music minister. The second was the nuts and bolts of actually running the music ministry of the local church.
This is fascinating. Are there classes like this at every seminary, do you think? I'm not really fond of the idea of getting a masters of divinity or anything like that, as I'm not really interested in ministry as a "career" (hell, I'd love to make a living leading worship, but I don't want to lead worship for my living... if that makes sense). I'm more interested in a more informal learning / ministry environment, that doesn't depend so much on getting the bills paid, which is why I haven't really considered seminary classes (as a student or a teacher) for this sort of thing.
To be honest, I’m not always looking for tips on the “spiritual” part of the job. Rather, I seek handles for efficiency and musicality. How to select and implement a song based upon theme and appropriateness for congregational singing. How to plan and lead a rehearsal. How to communicate with the pastor, other people on the platform, and the congregation. How to fix an audio problem. That’s just off the top of my head.
That all makes perfect sense, and these are some of the very things that my fictitious firm will do.
As for the first prong, again I’m not as interested in the “spiritual” part as I am the roles and responsibilities of the music minister (volunteer or paid) in relation to church staff. Perhaps a downside to the growth of the worship industry (and don't kid yourself if you think it isn't one) over that past 20 years or so is the creation and elevation of the title Worship Leader. We’ve even flipped the term on its ear in reaction by calling it Lead Worshipper. Frankly, I find it all a little silly at best; self-serving at worst.
You've got my wholehearted support here.
In His love,
Nate
Have I created some talking points? Cheesed off a few of you?
This sounds like a great project, Nate. I'd like to play along.[/quote]
Answer:
Thought of a couple more things this morning.
I think it’s crucial for music ministers to separate the idea of worship setting and concert setting. We hear the live CDs and want to emulate the experience, but more often that was a concert that had worship elements. What we need to do in the local church is plan and lead worship, which may or may not contain concert elements. Big difference, IMO.
The other thought pertains to musicianship. Far too many new worship leaders think that this stuff just happens. They don’t have the time or commitment to prepare and rehearse like the bands on the CDs, but think they can create the same musical effects with a single rehearsal of an all volunteer band and singers. Somehow we need to acquire realistic expectations, while still pursuing musical excellence.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Tony As for the first prong, again I’m not as interested in the “spiritual” part as I am the roles and responsibilities of the music minister (volunteer or paid) in relation to church staff. Perhaps a downside to the growth of the worship industry (and don't kid yourself if you think it isn't one) over that past 20 years or so is the creation and elevation of the title Worship Leader. We’ve even flipped the term on its ear in reaction by calling it Lead Worshipper. Frankly, I find it all a little silly at best; self-serving at worst.
Have I created some talking points? Cheesed off a few of you?
I have not heard the term Lead Worshipper before, but wow that is almost scary to me. "Lead" to me means the person whose example you follow. I am not sure my relationship with Christ is the same as the person next to me and I am pretty certain that I would not like to fit into their paradigm of individual worship, but I digress.
I do believe that there is some merit to the position, though I do not believe you meant the whole concept any slight. New wine needs a new wine skin to change and grow along with the growing and changing needs of the wine (er, worshipers), Mark knew that the only thing constant is change and offered those words of encouragement to people who want to spread the Word across the millenium in new ways - to us today. Not every pastor has all of the nuts and bolts skills nessicary to run a contemporary service, in fact most do not but that does not diminish their Kingdom Power one bit. I can just see our associate pastors now at: Sound Board Trouble Shooting 210 - Feedback and You... That ministry needs that a person with those gifts to use them to glorify their Giver. So you could call me anything, but don't call me late for Church!
Your sharing and teaching idea is fantastic and worthy of great effort. I have been to a number of these and it always boils down to this - validation. There is just no way to present this information, especially to an emerging Church, that can not be a truly positive thing for the presentor and presentee.
Post the dates when you get it rolling and put me down for Me + 1...
In His Service,
Max
Answer:
Ok... I'm still rolling this idea around, and it's developed some... it's more of a website now.
That may seem like something that's been done a million times before (a website to help music ministers or church musicians, that is), but I think my basic idea is something unique: a site / entity / what-have-you that attempts to give musical, technical, and practical instruction to music ministers and church musicians in a context that is immediately applicable to their ministry. There are music theory sites, there are equipment sites, there are tab sites, there are sites for music ministers and worship leaders, but there is nothing where all of this information meets. That's basically where this is going as of now.
Look here: www.loyno.edu/~nmstraig for an example of the site format and layout (it won't open quite right in IE yet, but I'm close), and give me some feedback concerning what things you would like to see there (keep in mind that it's just a very basic site template right now [this part is actually a project for a different class], so the sections are apt to change / be rearranged).
Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?
In His love,
Nate