Question:
When I first came to CGR, I was a new convert - ready and willing to sprinkle salvation dust all over the world to make it anew. During this time, I started attending what I didn't realize was a Fundamentalist church which I personally believe screwed up about a year and a half of my "new" Christian development in a draconian, paranoid way that I'll only hope to ever understand.
Last summer, after my girlfriend moved out of her house (her parents going to the church - her dad being a deacon - and very supportive of anything and everything that happens/ed there), she moved out because she was fed up. She was fed up after having her parents lie to her time after time, after going through stages of her life which constituted as child abuse (physical, emotional, and neglect, though I won't go into this unless I need to), and after having her parents revolve around her like she was 6.
So, the only logical choice was for her to move into my parent's house. To set it straight: I live an hour east in Kent, Ohio (where I attend college) and she sleeps in a different room at home when I'm back. Anyway...
Her parents have obviously slung crap about us. They claim I'm an alcoholic (I've heard these rumors myself), they claim that she's doing horribly physically and financially (and claim that she's addicted to drugs*), and (most drastic of all for the church community), they claim we're living together. Oh... and since I'm a heathen as I have no spiritual interest and don't attend church (my parents are Catholic... of COURSE that's the case), the situation is even better.
I've gotten letters from the church, awkward stares from members when/if I see them at the store (even worse for my girlfriend, living so close to the church and all), and my girlfriend has been yelled at in the streets after simply saying "hi" to what now constitutes as a former friend of hers.
Because it's complex for me (and is straining my emotional and spiritual life), I've got a bunch of questions... too many to ask. But I suppose two important ones for now include these:
1.) Should I ask the church to stop sending letters? And how should I do it? I know it's a strange question to ask you (mostly) anonymous internet people, but I historically avoid confrontation. I probably shouldn't now...but I don't want to do anything stupid, either.
2.) While I'm not worried about improving our reputation (in all honesty, I have a feeling being labeled as a "heretic" from this church will someday turn out to be a badge of honor), is there anything you would do? I'm just curious.
In all honesty, while at school I haven't been drastically seeking out churches to attend. I know this is a problem, but I've changed a lot since being Josh the Salvation Fairy (oh... Christ was somewhere there too, right?)... I think I'm just afraid of doing the same thing again...and I know my girlfriend is too.
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* This is another "later" issue that needs explanation...but not right now. As sad as it is, I laughed my butt off when I heard the accusation.
Answer:
Originally Posted by jfahler03 When I first came to CGR, I was a new convert - ready and willing to sprinkle salvation dust all over the world to make it anew. During this time, I started attending what I didn't realize was a Fundamentalist church which I personally believe screwed up about a year and a half of my "new" Christian development in a draconian, paranoid way that I'll only hope to ever understand.
Last summer, after my girlfriend moved out of her house (her parents going to the church - her dad being a deacon - and very supportive of anything and everything that happens/ed there), she moved out because she was fed up. She was fed up after having her parents lie to her time after time, after going through stages of her life which constituted as child abuse (physical, emotional, and neglect, though I won't go into this unless I need to), and after having her parents revolve around her like she was 6.
So, the only logical choice was for her to move into my parent's house. To set it straight: I live an hour east in Kent, Ohio (where I attend college) and she sleeps in a different room at home when I'm back. Anyway...
Her parents have obviously slung crap about us. They claim I'm an alcoholic (I've heard these rumors myself), they claim that she's doing horribly physically and financially (and claim that she's addicted to drugs*), and (most drastic of all for the church community), they claim we're living together. Oh... and since I'm a heathen as I have no spiritual interest and don't attend church (my parents are Catholic... of COURSE that's the case), the situation is even better.
I've gotten letters from the church, awkward stares from members when/if I see them at the store (even worse for my girlfriend, living so close to the church and all), and my girlfriend has been yelled at in the streets after simply saying "hi" to what now constitutes as a former friend of hers.
Because it's complex for me (and is straining my emotional and spiritual life), I've got a bunch of questions... too many to ask. But I suppose two important ones for now include these:
1.) Should I ask the church to stop sending letters? And how should I do it? I know it's a strange question to ask you (mostly) anonymous internet people, but I historically avoid confrontation. I probably shouldn't now...but I don't want to do anything stupid, either.
2.) While I'm not worried about improving our reputation (in all honesty, I have a feeling being labeled as a "heretic" from this church will someday turn out to be a badge of honor), is there anything you would do? I'm just curious.
In all honesty, while at school I haven't been drastically seeking out churches to attend. I know this is a problem, but I've changed a lot since being Josh the Salvation Fairy (oh... Christ was somewhere there too, right?)... I think I'm just afraid of doing the same thing again...and I know my girlfriend is too.
===
* This is another "later" issue that needs explanation...but not right now. As sad as it is, I laughed my butt off when I heard the accusation.
thats some church.
i would personally look for another church. sounds like from wat ur sayin is that this church has some issues to work out.
Answer:
Originally Posted by jfahler03 1.) Should I ask the church to stop sending letters? And how should I do it? I know it's a strange question to ask you (mostly) anonymous internet people, but I historically avoid confrontation. I probably shouldn't now...but I don't want to do anything stupid, either. What do the letters say? You could always just not read them; or if they're harassing enough, maybe there's something legal you could do.
2.) While I'm not worried about improving our reputation (in all honesty, I have a feeling being labeled as a "heretic" from this church will someday turn out to be a badge of honor), is there anything you would do? I'm just curious. I would send a letter respectfully stating that you didn't want to be harassed anymore...and maybe move somewhere else Heh.
Answer:
Originally Posted by burningtr33 thats some church.
i would personally look for another church. sounds like from wat ur sayin is that this church has some issues to work out.
I'm with him ^
It seems to me that if a church is doing that to you then you should find a new one. And maybe find some new friends while you're at it. Real friends wouldn't jump to conclusions like that. That said, sometimes it's hard to find "real friends" by that definition.
Answer:
He's not going to the church guys
he's left....
Well ya know
I go to the cult....
And am quite proud of it
I have heard such things as we are not allowed to say Jesus between 9 and 5.
among other things
all of this about a southern baptist church
But anyways
We get lots of phone calls and letters from former members (being a pastors kid n stuff)
about how horrible we are n such
when all we're doing is seeking God's Will
In all honesty
God's put you in this position for a reason
Not that you know what it is yet
or you may not ever completly understand....
But I don't really know how to tell you to deal with it
other than just reply to them in the most Christ like manner that you can muster
or not reply to them at all
Answer:
Originally Posted by RawkforChrist He's not going to the church guys
he's left....
Well ya know
I go to the cult....
And am quite proud of it
I have heard such things as we are not allowed to say Jesus between 9 and 5.
among other things
all of this about a southern baptist church
But anyways
We get lots of phone calls and letters from former members (being a pastors kid n stuff)
about how horrible we are n such
when all we're doing is seeking God's Will
In all honesty
God's put you in this position for a reason
Not that you know what it is yet
or you may not ever completly understand....
But I don't really know how to tell you to deal with it
other than just reply to them in the most Christ like manner that you can muster
or not reply to them at all Ok, I have no idea what you just said...
Other than God's put you in that situation for a reason. Yes, but that doesn't mean you're meant to stay in that place.
Answer:
Originally Posted by RawkforChrist He's not going to the church guys
he's left....
Well ya know
I go to the cult....
And am quite proud of it
I have heard such things as we are not allowed to say Jesus between 9 and 5.
among other things
all of this about a southern baptist church
But anyways
We get lots of phone calls and letters from former members (being a pastors kid n stuff)
about how horrible we are n such
when all we're doing is seeking God's Will
In all honesty
God's put you in this position for a reason
Not that you know what it is yet
or you may not ever completly understand....
But I don't really know how to tell you to deal with it
other than just reply to them in the most Christ like manner that you can muster
or not reply to them at all
Yes, I agree with Seth. Some churches are just very, very judgmental. You aren't going to change them, so I suggest that you find a church that is rock solid in it's foundation, and stop worrying about what the other church thinks. I also agree that God puts us through these challenges to prepare us for something to come, so even though it is hard for you right now, it is all part of a greater plan.
Answer:
This is food for thought. I am not stating that this corresponds directly to your situation in every detail, but I do believe that it holds some hints or ideas that can shed some light on your situation so that you can either a) make a decision, b) confirm a decision or c) find something to compare your situation to in a general sense based on the following text. If you find literal corelations, awesome. If not, awesome. At the least, it's a good read.
I would like to stress, though, that you're in no position of "power," per se, over this church. Tell them to stop sending letters, sure. Or start sending whatever letters they mail back to them unopened. Whatever path you choose, though, it needs to line up with scripture in terms of what you choose to do, but it also needs to line up with scripture in terms of how you do it.
See Romans 12:17-19
___________________________
Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior,
To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.
One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.
To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.
Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance. Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.
Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
(Titus ch. 1, 2, NASB)
Answer:
First of all, I think the Romans 12:17-19 passage says exactly what I needed to read... but not what I wanted to... thanks for pointing that out.
Also, thanks for the responses. As far as the letters, they mostly invite me to random services... which I believe is condescending at worst and annoying at best. I'm going to be sending an e-mail to request my address to be removed from their mailing list per legislation regarding unsolicited mail.
I think what bothered me most was the fact that a perfect utopia-seeming world seems to have been turned upside-down ni the past two years. I'll just leave it at that while I think of a more thought out response. Thanks again.
Answer:
I don't know what legal weight any legislation about unsolicited mail will have in your situation as I'm sure you were probably the one who gave them the address (and thus, permission) in the first place. If it was your parents when you were a minor or if it's coming to their house and not your current one I don't think you really have any grounds there either as it was your parents' choice then and/or the house is legally theirs, along with any mail that is sent to it.
If it gets worse I would think there are avenues to take regarding restraining orders, even if it is against an organization. If not that, then something similar to it.
Answer:
The simplest thing to do with letters you don't want is write "return to sender" on them and stick them back in the mail box.
As for the stuff that's happening on the streets, that sounds like harassment and I wouldn't put up with it. If you see it happening to your girlfriend, I would tell the person doing it to kindly f*** off... just not in those words.
Answer:
Originally Posted by jfahler03 As far as the letters, they mostly invite me to random services... which I believe is condescending at worst and annoying at best. I'm going to be sending an e-mail to request my address to be removed from their mailing list per legislation regarding unsolicited mail. Don't bring in legislation. Mail a written copy of the letter to them, keep a copy for yourself. Or if you email have a read receipt required - that way you can ensure that they did receive it. If they do not take you off the mailing list, then look at the legislation.
Answer:
Originally Posted by passinthru Don't bring in legislation. Mail a written copy of the letter to them, keep a copy for yourself. Or if you email have a read receipt required - that way you can ensure that they did receive it. If they do not take you off the mailing list, then look at the legislation.
It's already (hopefully) done with. Maybe I shouldn't have used the "l" word...
Answer:
my bad sorry. It's better to be seen as a request before bringing in an arsenol to back you up.
Go with what the cockroach said up there in terms of anything you do get. mark it return to sender and put it back in the mail.
Answer:
Pray for her parents and the church, maybe someone will benefit from that, possibly the group will change, or her parents be somewhat enlightened.
Rejoice when you are persecuted! Seems awful when it is by people who consider themselves Christian. As long as you are standing firm in Jesus teaching, you are doing the right thing.
You might want to try a search for what to do about harassment through the US mail, this is surely not the first time it's happened. In my neighborhood the postal delivery person will usually have some kind of a clue about what to do or where to go to find out.
I grew up Catholic, and do not agree with the church doctrine there, much of it. But there are some very enthusiastic, strong and Jesus-devoted people that I have known who are Catholic. Without them, I'm not sure where I'd be spiritually. I can say the same about a lot of protestants and non-denominationals. I guess I'm saying be careful about the doctrine of any church, keep learning from the Gospels. Good luck.
We all hit that wall, where the initial enthusiasm runs low. I think it's like any commitment, you have to renew it, go back to why you felt that way. Don't let anything come between you and the living God.