Question:
First a little background. Both my girlfriend and I are 21, will be graduating from college in May and going to graduate school in the fall (at the same place). We have been dating for about a year and a half, and have planned on/talked about getting married in early to mid 2007 (which means a proposal should be coming from me during the near future:-D).
Anyway, here's the problem: Not too long before we started dating (a month and a half or so), I had a one week "fling" w/a girl, which included going out to grab some food, and physically went as far as some kissing. When my current girlfriend and I started dating, I didn't give much that to telling her, as I foudn it irrelevant to the health of our relationship. I had recognized my mistake and moved on, basically putting the fling behind me. She found out about it (through a friend) about 4 months ago, and it has really bothered her. Basically, the thought of the restaurant that I took my fling to on a couple of occassions makes my current girlfriend sick to think about. I agreed to not go again, but recently, some friends asked me to go and she had said it would be ok b/c it shouldn't upset her (I declined at the time). Tonight I went with some friends to the restaurant. I told my girlfriend about it, and she said she couldn't get the thought of me and my fling kissing out of her head for the rest of the night, and that she didn't know if she would be able to date or marry me because of this.
She says she trys to fight these thoughts, and I believe her. However, I don't know if it's fair for her to kind of hold this against me, given it happened before we were dating. I want to be able to help her work through whatever problem she has w/picturing my past events, but I don't know how, and now she's just upset with me b/c "I don't understand what this means to her." Any advice, you guys? It's really bothering me, and I don't know what to do exactly. I don't feel like I've done anything "wrong" by going to this place with my friends, but of course I'm certainly willing to give it up again if necessary. What say you?
Answer:
First, I don't think you're at fault in this situation. You were not dating her when you had the fling, and so at that time you had no commitment to your current girlfriend. Also, you said that she had ok'd you to return to the restaurant, so I don't see how you went against her wishes. You could be accused of being insensitive to her 'unspoken' concerns, but I don't think that's fair.
Second, she needs to do some serious thinking. Simply quashing how she feels isn't going to make things better for her - she needs to find the root of why she gets worked up at the thought of you having a relationship prior to her. Unless you told her that she was your first girlfriend, I don't see how her thoughts are in the right.
That said, you two are seriously considering marriage, and so being able to work through this sort of thing is important. This sort of thing, not knowing her side of the story, is difficult for me to advise you on. I don't know why she's upset at you, what you said and why her response was what it was, or how you two resolved such differences in the past. If you can tell me those things, I may be better able to help, but until then I suppose it's up to the rest of the board to help.
Answer:
Something doesn't add up here. People date other people all the time before dating the person they'll eventually marry. What's wrong with you having gone out with another girl (even kissed said other girl) before going out with your current girlfriend? And why did you label this "fling" a "mistake"? Is there something you're not telling us, or is this situation as weird as it sounds?
Best I can tell, there's no reason for your girlfriend to be upset about you going to a restaurant... even a restaurant you went to a few times with a former girlfriend. Or is this some kind of restaurant like Hooters or, worse, a strip joint or something?
Sorry to make strange assumptions / guesses like that, but something seems really odd here.
Answer:
Originally Posted by mattr2006 I don't feel like I've done anything "wrong" by going to this place with my friends, but of course I'm certainly willing to give it up again if necessary. What say you?
Well, you really shouldn't have gone in the first place if you told her that you'd never go again. If you "give it up again if necessary," do it for real and don't go there again, even if she claims that it will be ok.
Answer:
Most people don't find "the one" the first time, meaning that there are almost guaranteed to be previous relationships. Given that and the fact that all you did was just a little kissing is a bit ridiculous to get worked up over, especially after a while. If I may be blunt, it's not that big a deal in my opinion (unless you have decided not to kiss until you're married, which is an entirely different situation altogether). My fiancee and I both had relationships before which involved a bit of kissing. It's awkward at first, but we got over it in no time (that's even considering that we're still very good friends with our ex's and each other's ex). So, yeah, I think you need to try to figure out what the underlying issue is here. Insecurities? Jealousy? You guys just need to seriously discuss why it is such an issue with her. Obviously, don't go in telling her she's wrong, or should change, but respectfully discuss it. It's nothing that you should be ashamed of or anything, and there's nothing you've done "wrong". As far as the restaurant, maybe you need to make new memories with your current girlfriend so she doesn't think about your past when you're there (but don't propose there, that might be really awkward).
Answer:
Originally Posted by mattr2006 I agreed to not go again, but recently, some friends asked me to go and she had said it would be ok b/c it shouldn't upset her Originally Posted by OctaviusIII Also, you said that she had ok'd you to return to the restaurant, so I don't see how you went against her wishes.
Don't you guys understand...
When a woman says "It's ok to do ____(something)" what she really means is "If you do ____(something) I will hold it against you forever and be extremely angry with you for the next month or so."
Well... at least that's my experience with women.
They don't say what they mean... instead, you're supposed to know what they meant.
Answer:
Be careful with your feminine psychology here, boys.
When anyone (not just a girl but anyone) says you can do something but doesn't really mean it, it hints at a larger issue. There is no logical or respectable way to pin this on her because she is a woman. That's total crap.
The larger issue here is communication and honesty, for which both parties are somewhat at fault- he for going without making sure, she for lying.
I think this is something that needs to be talked out. It's not a "girls are weird" or "boys are stupid" issue in the slightest. Here's what I am getting from it.
At around the time you had this "fling" (which was foolish, to be honest, because it was rather indulgent and juvenile to just have a fling like that), if you two knew each other, she had probably already attached herself to you. If this is so, then it hurts her because it's a reminder that you did not, at the time, have any such attachment to her (or at least didn't act on that attachment, which means the fling could have just been you trying to convince yourself that you weren't into your current girlfriend), and probably instills doubt in her as to whether or not you have the same feelings about her now as she has had for you for some time.
Of course, that's just one possibility.
If you want to help her through this, I think it would be smart for you to hold up to your promises by not going back (screw any negative feedback you might get from friends, because you loaded your wagon and you now have to pull it). It would also be very smart to pray for the both of you both seperately and with her very often. I'd say there is a lot of getting-to-know-you that needs to happen here before you can move forward- if, in fact, you end up moving forward.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Nate Something doesn't add up here. People date other people all the time before dating the person they'll eventually marry. What's wrong with you having gone out with another girl (even kissed said other girl) before going out with your current girlfriend? And why did you label this "fling" a "mistake"? Is there something you're not telling us, or is this situation as weird as it sounds?
Best I can tell, there's no reason for your girlfriend to be upset about you going to a restaurant... even a restaurant you went to a few times with a former girlfriend. Or is this some kind of restaurant like Hooters or, worse, a strip joint or something?
Sorry to make strange assumptions / guesses like that, but something seems really odd here. i have to agree.. it all sounds very vague.
Answer:
Originally Posted by SilverNitrate
Don't you guys understand...
When a woman says "It's ok to do ____(something)" what she really means is "If you do ____(something) I will hold it against you forever and be extremely angry with you for the next month or so."
Well... at least that's my experience with women.
They don't say what they mean... instead, you're supposed to know what they meant.
umm..... no. People that do that, whether male or female, are too immature to outright say what they mean, and that constitutes lying. If I get the sense that a girl wants me to do the opposite of what she says, I'll call her on it - does she actually mean this instead of that? If she gets mad at me after backing up her lie, she either lied to herself and me, or just to me. Then I'll call her on it again. Let's put it this way: one shouldn't beat around the bush when in a relationship. Open communication is vital, and in the situation in question she needed to be more honest.
As for the rest, I lend my support to murdock
Answer:
Originally Posted by OctaviusIII People that do that, whether male or female, are too immature to outright say what they mean, and that constitutes lying. I wouldn't be so quick to judge them as immature. Telling the truth is good; letting someone do what they want instead of forcing them to do what you want is also good.
Answer:
I didn't realize I was so vague in my first post. No intention to sound that way. To address someone who asked why I labeled the fling a mistake, it's basically what Murdock said. A one week relationship right after returning to school was unnecessary, selfish, indulgent, etc. It just wasn't a very God-honoring relationship to have. As for the person who was asking about what kind of restaurant it was (worrying that it was Hooters' or another similar place), it's a coffeehouse/teahouse type of place--certainly nothing scandalous here.
Here is what seems to be the root of the issue. At the time of my one week relationship/fling (whatever you want to call it--label it as you wish), my current girlfriend and I knew each other (and had for about a year). I guess there had been expressions of interest in each other (to the extent of talking a fair amoutn when we hung out w/our mutual friends together), but certainly no explicit expression of feelings or anything of the sort. Of course, then I went and did my foolish little thing, and then started dating my current girlfriend a month and a half or two later. Foolish and immature on my part? Probably. I own up to that mistake. I think she is hurt because she feels I betrayed her through my fling in the months leading up to our relationship where there was some level of mutual interest shown. And I can understand why she was hurt by this.
What I don't really understand, I think, is why she gets so mad at me or why this causes so many problems for her in the present? I have no problem giving up the restaurant if that's what it takes....I'm just more worried about why it affects her so much and if it points to something deeper. It made her mad enough to tell me, "I don't want to see you or talk to you," although she didn't follow up on it, as things in the short term are much better now. I want to find the root issue...I don't know if it's jealousy, insecurity, her desire to control our relationship. I'm just looking for input from you guys (I've been a lurker here for a while, and have seen the good advice you often give). Anyway, hope this clears some things up. I'll answer anymore questions anybody has.
Answer:
If she feels betrayed by a fling you had before the two of you were even dating, then she might have had a different idea of what your relationship was at that time. Maybe she felt committed to you already in that month and a half before you started dating. If so, then I can understand her concern now. She may be worried that you will betray her again. How can she know you won't? Especailly if she feels you have done it before and didn't even tell her until 4 months ago?
And I can certainly understand her not wanting to go to the restaurant. I don't really want my boyfriend to take me to places I know that he went with his ex, although going there with a group a friends is totally different than him taking me there alone.
Definitely talk to her. No one on this forum is going to be able to tell you what your girlfriend is thinking. And there's no way you can just 'figure it out' without asking her. If you do talk to her, though, try just listening first. Ask questions and listen. And don't actually use words like "jealous" and "insecure". Just ask her how she feels/thinks and let her tell you. And don't forget to tell her that you love her frequently.
Answer:
The only answer to this is to sit down and talk it out. If you don't feel you've done anything wrong, she needs to know. If this "fling" occured before you two were even together, there is likely a deeper issue here than the fact that you have ever kissed anyone else in your life.
Answer:
I think that this is a serious indicator of things to come. She's obviously not mature enough to really handle any sort of serious relationship. I mean, you only went as far as kissing...it could have gone a lot further been alot worse. There are issues here that run alot deeper than what she's saying. You should seriously consider whether or not marrying a girl that freaks out over small things like this is a wise idea. What happens when a woman at your office one day flirts with you and your wife finds out? Or what happens if, God forbid, later on in your marriage, you run into an old girlfriend that you remained friends with and have the audacity to actually say high to an old friend? Will she be able to handle that? Marriage isn't a cakewalk, both people in the marriage need to be able and willing to trust each other and not hold past mistakes over the head of the offender. If my wife couldn't get over my past flaws then I'd be in a real pickle, because I've made alot worse mistakes than just kissing someone I shouldn't have.
Answer:
Originally Posted by ChrisHarbison I think that this is a serious indicator of things to come. She's obviously not mature enough to really handle any sort of serious relationship. I mean, you only went as far as kissing...it could have gone a lot further been alot worse. There are issues here that run alot deeper than what she's saying. You should seriously consider whether or not marrying a girl that freaks out over small things like this is a wise idea. What happens when a woman at your office one day flirts with you and your wife finds out? Or what happens if, God forbid, later on in your marriage, you run into an old girlfriend that you remained friends with and have the audacity to actually say high to an old friend? Will she be able to handle that? Marriage isn't a cakewalk, both people in the marriage need to be able and willing to trust each other and not hold past mistakes over the head of the offender. If my wife couldn't get over my past flaws then I'd be in a real pickle, because I've made alot worse mistakes than just kissing someone I shouldn't have. I don't think this a very fair assumption. I had my own issues regarding envy/jealousy when I first started dating Dan. I would get this horrible feeling when I even thought about his exgirlfriend and I would get all tongue tied when she and I were in the same room together because I was nervous or jealous or whatever feeling that was... it was strange.
But now I don't feel that anymore. I think it just took time and a lot of reminding myself that both my and Dan's past past relationships are in fact things of the past. And that the only way those relationships are relvant now is that they taught us things about relationships that are useful to us now.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I am glad that Dan didn't break up with me because he thought I had issues and am immature. It is only through talking with him about it and through letting our relationship grow and mature that I have been able to get past that issue. You say that in a marriage one needs to be able to get over past mistakes, but what about present mistakes?