Question:
I'm sure there have been threads on this before, but in light of the recent use of a certain member's name as a profane word, what exactly defines profanity, and when (if ever) is it appropriate?
I'll post my opinion later.
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I'll say this much, I had a person almost imply to me that a minister (I know the post wasn't directed exclusively at ministers, but this is just what happened to me) in certain parts of the country where the efbomb is part of everyday dialect might be allowed to use profanity.
The reason? He might not be taken seriously by kids in LA or NY if he didn't salt his language now and then.
My opinion? I don't buy it.
There's probably places in the world where it's acceptable to cheat on your spouse, but that still doesn't make it right in God's eyes. Our last youth minister told me I was full of..........poop. And it wasn't a "slip of the lip" either. I forget his exact reasoning, but it seemed to be along the line of "I thought it, I might as well say it".
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Originally Posted by JayCarrfan I'm sure there have been threads on this before, but in light of the recent use of a certain member's name as a profane word, what exactly defines profanity, and when (if ever) is it appropriate?
I'll post my opinion later. The general consensus seems to be that connotation plays a key factor in what constitutes "profanity." This is why using another word (such as a person's name) in place of an obscenity is still offensive to many people.
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Doesn't Paul use a word equivalent to s***? I'm to tired to find the verse, but I'll look it up tomorrow if no one else posts it.
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Originally Posted by acrossthesirion Doesn't Paul use a word equivalent to s***? I'm to tired to find the verse, but I'll look it up tomorrow if no one else posts it. I'm pretty sure its the word rubbish in this verse.
Philippians 3:8
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
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Originally Posted by Sean I'm pretty sure its the word rubbish in this verse.
Philippians 3:8
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
That is correct.
I don't use profanity at all. I do not use words commonly regarded as innapropriate much unless you are threatening me. I have found I cuss if someone is threatening to kick my "biblical donkey". I would rather not to be honest.
Personally, language needs to be full of grace. However, when describing excrement, the word sh*t meens the same as crap, means the same as poop. I really don't have a problem with the use of that term for crap. It is a word for manure. When it is used as an insult, it is considered cursing.
(Note that in English, the misuse of God's name and, damn are practically speaking the primary profanity. Profanity specifically refers to degredation of the sacred, thus properly speaking, telling someone to f--- off is not profane, but rather obscene)
People have never taken me too lightly in an urban setting. And I have been up Cabrini Green in Chicago, and worked a summer in Watts. Furthermore I grew up in a violent ghetto. I don't cuss as a general rule. It unnerves people when you don't.
I find that as a general rule, the F word is almost always obscene. I find its usage to devalue the act of sex. It views it as a curse instead of the beautiful gift it is in marriage. Scripture does command that our language not be obscene, and images which conjur obscene thoughts are thus off limits. However, some assumptions of cuss words are insane. If feces is okay, why not s*it? If butt is okay, why not ass?
However context is key. If one were discussing how hot a girl's (or guy's, girls don't get a free pass on this one either) butt was, it does not matter the descriptor used. The action is lustfull. (I am assuming that you are not telling your wife you like her butt here for conversation's sake...)
Callying someone an ignorant fool is no better than calling them a name that would be censored by astericks here.
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Originally Posted by Sean I'm pretty sure its the word rubbish in this verse.
Philippians 3:8
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
Yep, that's it.
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As far as the word ass is concerned, I think it's necessary to remember that it was originally in reference to a donkey. So, calling someone an "ass", while definitely rude is not much worse than calling someone a hippo.
I've discovered that avoiding cursing is one of the easiest ways to show your witness. Especially when I'm working in the kitchen, most of my coworkers speak the language of filfth. I uttered one once, but that was in correlation to hot grease shooting into my eye. Honestly, everyone was taken by surprise that I said it, I guess that's a good thing in the big picture.
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Originally Posted by JayCarrfan As far as the word ass is concerned, I think it's necessary to remember that it was originally in reference to a donkey. So, calling someone an "ass", while definitely rude is not much worse than calling someone a hippo.
I've discovered that avoiding cursing is one of the easiest ways to show your witness. Especially when I'm working in the kitchen, most of my coworkers speak the language of filfth. I uttered one once, but that was in correlation to hot grease shooting into my eye. Honestly, everyone was taken by surprise that I said it, I guess that's a good thing in the big picture.
An absence is not a witness. Avoiding cursing is not a way to share Christ. Actively showing love is.
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Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq An absence is not a witness. Avoiding cursing is not a way to share Christ. Actively showing love is.
agreed, but I still think it's sort of a way of showing "hey, there's something different about that guy". Also, quite often, cursing is a way of revealing rage. If I seem to have a certain peace about me, is that not living as a witness like I'm meant to be?
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Originally Posted by JayCarrfan agreed, but I still think it's sort of a way of showing "hey, there's something different about that guy". Also, quite often, cursing is a way of revealing rage. If I seem to have a certain peace about me, is that not living as a witness like I'm meant to be?
No, absolutely not. It is quite honestly living a lie.
It portrays the myth that Christians live happy lives, are always positive, and upbeat. However, when we look at the scriptures, we see rage, anger, pain, suffering and the whole gauntlet of human emotion. There is a lot of negativity in the scriptures. Jesus even got angry. When he braided a whip out of cords and threw tables around he was not sinning.
I am not saying we should be angry or violent. However, most Christians today hide pain and fake a false peace scripture never promised. That is a witness alright, but a witness to hypocrisy.
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Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq No, absolutely not. It is quite honestly living a lie.
It portrays the myth that Christians live happy lives, are always positive, and upbeat. However, when we look at the scriptures, we see rage, anger, pain, suffering and the whole gauntlet of human emotion. There is a lot of negativity in the scriptures. Jesus even got angry. When he braided a whip out of cords and threw tables around he was not sinning.
I am not saying we should be angry or violent. However, most Christians today hide pain and fake a false peace scripture never promised. That is a witness alright, but a witness to hypocrisy.
I still don't quite agree with what you are saying. Yeah, I get frustrated, but I'm not walking around putting on a smile just for show. I'm not "not cursing" just as a false testimony, it's also an encouragement to younger Christians. Jesus got mad at people violating His Father's House, I don't have a reason to get mad over little things.
It's not faking it, it's just a "grin and bear it" philosophy.
James 1:2
Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
To me, it is a challenge of my faith to be the only one in my workplace not swearing. If I can actually react to a customer in a well respectable manner rather than go into the kitchen and have a brief fit of rage, it works better and reflects better upon me. And, being the senior sever on staff, it sets a better example to the rest of our wait staff.
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Originally Posted by JayCarrfan I still don't quite agree with what you are saying. Yeah, I get frustrated, but I'm not walking around putting on a smile just for show. I'm not "not cursing" just as a false testimony, it's also an encouragement to younger Christians. Jesus got mad at people violating His Father's House, I don't have a reason to get mad over little things.
It's not faking it, it's just a "grin and bear it" philosophy.
James 1:2
Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
To me, it is a challenge of my faith to be the only one in my workplace not swearing. If I can actually react to a customer in a well respectable manner rather than go into the kitchen and have a brief fit of rage, it works better and reflects better upon me. And, being the senior sever on staff, it sets a better example to the rest of our wait staff.
grin and bear it is not from Christianity. It comes more from the pagan philosophy of stoicism.
And that passage from James... Isn't saying grin and bear it at all. It is saying to rejoice becasue trials bring about a good result. It is a cause to rejoice to suffer because one is sharing in the sufferings of Christ and thus is growing in maturity.
My point is simple. Not cussing isn't a testimony. It is a difference. It is neither good, nor bad. A lot of Christians try to keep a "testimony" or "witness" to unbelievers, by building a false persona or a facade.
What I am saying is this. There is a big temptation to believe that by not cussing, we are witnessing to the gospel. Unless the gospel is self effort, then we are not by not cussing.
I do not as a general rule cuss. I prefer to communicate in imaginative ways. If I wish to express my displeasure with something's appearance, I would rather use an expressive metaphor that is far more impactful than cursing.
However, if you want to be a witness, be real. So many times I see Christians who are fake to be a testimony, and they are not a testimony, distinctly because they are fake.
If you want to show the love of Christ, it takes living a life of love for others rather than not saying x number of "bad" words. It is much more costly to do so.
Thats why I say not cussing is not a witness of anything. A Mormon or atheist could do the exact same thing.
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Hello all. I thought maybe I can also put in what I feel about Christians using profanity.
Personally, I believe that a Christian should not use profane words in any circumstances. Be it anger, disgust, hatred, or any emotion whatsoever. We have all freedom to express these emotions, but as Christians, I feel, we should not do it in a worldly way. Even saying oh s**t or oh c**p or to express disgust is not at all for us Christians to do. Many people do it and it is NOT pleasing to hear that! Like BSPE said, we have all freedom to express these emotions. BUT we gotta do it UNLIKE the world does. More clearly, in a distinctly different way than the world does. The world uses filthy language and obscene gestures etc to express their bad emotions, if we do the same, then that is like bringing shame to God. We profess to be His children but don't follow His commands, thats absolutely deceiving Him and oursleves. Take a look at what Ephesians 4:29 says,
"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."
It is a Christian Testimony not to speak profane words. It shows how you set yourself apart fronm the world. You choose to glorify God's name by keeping your mind and words pure. That definaltey makes the Lord happy. Unbelievers can look at your life and know that you are different- different from them. Because you believe in someone different from whom they do. They understand that Christianity is not just going to Church or saying I feed the poor......we have to live a transformed life...one that challenges us and those around us. One that glorifies God.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
I do not use any profanity at all.
God Bless and glorify the Lord,
Rachel
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Originally Posted by glorify_theLord Hello all. I thought maybe I can also put in what I feel about Christians using profanity.
Personally, I believe that a Christian should not use profane words in any circumstances. Be it anger, disgust, hatred, or any emotion whatsoever. We have all freedom to express these emotions, but as Christians, I feel, we should not do it in a worldly way. Even saying oh s**t or oh c**p or to express disgust is not at all for us Christians to do.
Scripture? David was a man after God's own heart. He reffered to males as those who piss against the wall a few times. Not exactly un-coarse. The scriptures have been made more polite in translations, but why do you find it your prerogative to label say, Crap! as something wrong for Christians to say?
Many people do it and it is NOT pleasing to hear that! Like BSPE said, we have all freedom to express these emotions. BUT we gotta do it UNLIKE the world does.
So the Psalms are not inspired? David expressed some pretty coarse sentiments! Why do we have to express the same emotions differently than the world? As a show of hypocrisy? I point this out because I do not eat different than the world, I don't dress different from the world...
More clearly, in a distinctly different way than the world does. The world uses filthy language and obscene gestures etc to express their bad emotions, if we do the same, then that is like bringing shame to God.
Which emotions are bad? Biblical basis will be necessary of course. And why must we express these emotions at all if they are immoral? The issue here runs deeper than words.
We profess to be His children but don't follow His commands, thats absolutely deceiving Him and oursleves. Take a look at what Ephesians 4:29 says,
"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."
Define unwholesome. Is it gossip? Self righteous egoism or perhaps general coarse jesting? I think you will find it quite hard to pin certain words down as unwholesome.
It is a Christian Testimony not to speak profane words.
First of all, yes, but words are in and of themselves not profane. And crap, s---, f---, etc and so forth are generally not profane. (see definition of profane). If you mean it is a Christian testimony not to use words labeled as cuss words... you could not possibly be more wrong. It plain isn't. I know atheists who don't cuss, Mormons who don't cuss, and I have known Muslims who don't cuss. Since not cussing is not a prerequisite to Christianity or unique to it... It is not a testimony to anything.
It shows how you set yourself apart fronm the world.
Screw the whole love for each other bit, just don't cuss. [/tongue half in cheek] really, lets look at how Jesus said that the world would know we were his disciples rather than make new rules.
You choose to glorify God's name by keeping your mind and words pure.
Funny, I didn't think saying, crap I didn't study was impure. Frankly the concept of that being impure is rather ludicrous. On what basis could it be impure?
That definaltey makes the Lord happy.
All our righteousness is as a menstrual rag according to Isaiah. I would hesitate to say that an extra-biblical code of pietism makes God happy.
Unbelievers can look at your life and know that you are different- different from them.
No, they will no you don't use cuss words, just like their polite Budhist grandmother. At best they will peg you as religious based on this, which means they think you think you are better than them.
Because you believe in someone different from whom they do.
Not cussing doesn't show that at all. It shows you do not cuss.
They understand that Christianity is not just going to Church or saying I feed the poor......we have to live a transformed life...one that challenges us and those around us. One that glorifies God.
yep, it shows them that Christianity is a list of rules and regulations... nothing more. been there, in the regular secular world and earned unbelievers respect and had discussions on this topic.
Romans 12:2
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Abuse of scripture here. Do unbelievers poop? Using your logic, you would be presenting a testimony of Chrstianity by never pooping again. Unbelievers eat so...
The logic here is terminally flawed. If you want to make a case, you can't make a case that your way is morally superior because it is different. I see it done routinely, but most of what we do in word and deed is virtually identical to an unbeliever. I breathe, I get up, I eat, sleep, dream...
I do not use any profanity at all.
God Bless and glorify the Lord,
Rachel
that is fine, just don't delude yourself that that is a testimony. It isn't. It will result in you getting pegged as a self-righteous religious nut. On the surface, that can appear to be a badge of honor. However, in reality, its to our shame. What should mark our lives as believers is not slavish regulation to word lists, but attitudes of the heart and a life of sacrifice. If a homeless guy sees me cut my hand and yell crap! after having a meal with him... does that destroy the witness? No, because the love of Christ was shown.
Love, not regulation needs to be the hallmark of believers.
Also, one can only set the standards between ones self and the Lord. Any time one steps outside of those bounds, they are committing an act of profanity They are taking the Lord's responsibility to judge his servants among himself. And that, is taking the sacred, and making it common. that is devaluing the holy.