Question:
what do people think? has God abandoned them? has he broken an unbreakable covenant? you can probably tell by my way of asking that i think that the Jews are completely protected by God and that he loves them.
oh, and before posting please remember:
1. Jesus was a Jew
2. Jesus was a rabbi
Answer:
I think the Jews were a people chosen by God who were waiting for the their Messiah to come. He came, his name is Jesus. Some Jews got it and believed in Him and worshiped Him as God and in dying for the sins of the world Jesus (the long awaited Messiah) overcame the law. These Jews and converts wrote about Him and taught people about this saviour so that more people would believe in Him and here we are. The other Jews are still waiting.
Who are you calling the Jews, the religion or the race?
God loves His people. What do you mean by abandonment?
Answer:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_pirate what do people think? has God abandoned them? has he broken an unbreakable covenant? you can probably tell by my way of asking that i think that the Jews are completely protected by God and that he loves them.
oh, and before posting please remember:
1. Jesus was a Jew
2. Jesus was a rabbi
I really don't see how the fact that Jesus was a Jew or a Rabbi has any relevance to the question. But to answer it. God has and will keep his promise to the children of the promise. But who your father was has really no relevance at all.
Romans 9:6-8 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."^[b] In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.
Romans 11:1-6 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"^[a]? And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."^[b] So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.^[c]
Answer:
Originally Posted by i_am_a_pirate what do people think? has God abandoned them? has he broken an unbreakable covenant? you can probably tell by my way of asking that i think that the Jews are completely protected by God and that he loves them.
oh, and before posting please remember:
1. Jesus was a Jew
2. Jesus was a rabbi What do you think happened to the Jews who rejected Moses?
Answer:
I severely doubt that God rejected the Jews, but I think that the Jews did what the rest of the world does...they abandoned God. The disciples(who were Jewish) were at first told to spread the good news to other Jews before the rest of the world in the beginning of Acts. Then the gospel went out into the other nations. So I believe that the Jews left God, not vice versa
Answer:
Originally Posted by newcreation21 I severely doubt that God rejected the Jews, but I think that the Jews did what the rest of the world does...they abandoned God. The disciples(who were Jewish) were at first told to spread the good news to other Jews before the rest of the world in the beginning of Acts. Then the gospel went out into the other nations. So I believe that the Jews left God, not vice versa I have some pretty strong doubts that this would work. Pretty much the entire Bible is the story of God remaining steadfastly faitfhul to his people despite the fact that they continually reject him.
They don't want God's chosen Moses to rule over them. They turn to idolatry once they are in the land. They want Saul as their king rather than him. When he offers a King (David), all but 2 tribes leave. The prophets are sent, but they are martyred. Hence God's people is the whore Gomer whom God's Hosea marries -- "though we are faithless, he remains faithful -- for he cannot deny himself" (2 Tim 2:13).
But God's faithfulness to his Israel does not mean that the "Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) must be defined by ethnic descent, for "if you are Christ's, you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise" (Gal 3:29).
Answer:
Originally Posted by newcreation21 I severely doubt that God rejected the Jews, but I think that the Jews did what the rest of the world does...they abandoned God. The disciples(who were Jewish) were at first told to spread the good news to other Jews before the rest of the world in the beginning of Acts. Then the gospel went out into the other nations. So I believe that the Jews left God, not vice versa
God is still upholding his promise to the Jewish people. Whether they abandoned him or not is irrelevant to the point that God has not abandoned them.
It is clear from history that God protects the Jewish people, certainly they go through harsh trials, but God does protect them from anihilation.
People go too far trying to prove that the promise made to the jews now extends to only those who are christians. I believe that God made a promise to the Jewish people as well as to the faithful who follow Christ.
Its not a matter of one group is no longer Gods chosen people and another is. Those who are genetically desended of Israel (the person) are still Gods chosen people, as well, the Christians (Jewish, and Gentile) are Gods children.
The chosen people still are protected by the promises God made. They are as full in effect today as they were when God made them to Abraham those thousands of years ago.
Answer:
Originally Posted by demon_hunter God is still upholding his promise to the Jewish people. Whether they abandoned him or not is irrelevant to the point that God has not abandoned them.

It is clear from history that God protects the Jewish people, certainly they go through harsh trials, but God does protect them from anihilation.
People go too far trying to prove that the promise made to the jews now extends to only those who are christians. I believe that God made a promise to the Jewish people as well as to the faithful who follow Christ.

Its not a matter of one group is no longer Gods chosen people and another is. Those who are genetically desended of Israel (the person) are still Gods chosen people, as well, the Christians (Jewish, and Gentile) are Gods children.
The chosen people still are protected by the promises God made. They are as full in effect today as they were when God made them to Abraham those thousands of years ago. That's just it, God made no 1 way promise with Israel, God made the promise to Abraham and his Seed (Christ).

Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

Furthermore, Paul in Romans 9 says again that who your father was does not determine whether you are of Israel.

Romans 9:6-8 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; (7) nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." (8) That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

The promise is to those who are united with Christ by Faith. Your genetics has nothing to do with salvation or your status before God. No one has a divine claim on anything because who their father was.


Answer:
Not that I disagree with what has been said, but I thought I would throw in these scriptures to see what you all think of them.
Matthew 21[42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Romans 11[7] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
[8] (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
[9] And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
[10] Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
[11] I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
[12] Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
[13] For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
[14] If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
[15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
[16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[27] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
[29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Answer:
Originally Posted by demon_hunter Its not a matter of one group is no longer Gods chosen people and another is. Those who are genetically desended of Israel (the person) are still Gods chosen people, as well, the Christians (Jewish, and Gentile) are Gods children.
The chosen people still are protected by the promises God made. They are as full in effect today as they were when God made them to Abraham those thousands of years ago.
Originally Posted by Bryan That's just it, God made no 1 way promise with Israel, God made the promise to Abraham and his Seed (Christ)...

...The promise is to those who are united with Christ by Faith. Your genetics has nothing to do with salvation or your status before God. No one has a divine claim on anything because who their father was.
I would concur.
Answer:
Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle I would concur. with what, the statements you quoted of demon_hunter and myself are completely opposite, they can't both be true.
Answer:
They seem pretty complimentary to me.
Answer:
Can a genetic Jew not also be a Christian?
Answer:
Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle They seem pretty complimentary to me. demonhunter made a distinction between being God's children and God's chosen people. He says that ethnic Jews are God's chosen people, whereas God's children are those who are in Christ.
Answer:
Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle They seem pretty complimentary to me. he's saying God's chosen people depends on genetics, I am saying it has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with faith. Who your father was gives you no special status before God.