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We know God forbids homosexuality and that it is a lifestyle that we choose to live by or not but how do you reason with a homosexual person that their attraction is forbidden by God when attraction isn't a choice?
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Attraction isn't forbidden by God, as far as I can tell. Acting on attraction can be, but attraction itself is not.
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And also letting your attraction going beyond attraction to lust. I guess what Jesus says in Matthew about not looking a woman lustfully would apply to a guy to So a guy shouldn't look at a guy lustfully, a girl shouldn't look at a girl lustfully, a girl shouldn't look at a guy lustfully and a guy shouldn't look at a girl lustfully...ully, ully, ully...oh, sorry.
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Originally Posted by Stealth3si We know God forbids homosexuality and that it is a lifestyle that we choose to live by or not
How do we know that it is a lifestyle they choose?
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Originally Posted by 0000 How do we know that it is a lifestyle they choose? Because people are people not robots?
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Originally Posted by 0000 How do we know that it is a lifestyle they choose?
Regardless of the end result of nature vs. nurture, one ultimately has a choice whether or not to act on the impulses they have.
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Originally Posted by Stealth3si We know God forbids homosexuality and that it is a lifestyle that we choose to live by or not but how do you reason with a homosexual person that their attraction is forbidden by God when attraction isn't a choice? There are a lot of important things going on in this conversation. What is this person really getting at? How is he reacting to the outright hatred and fear of gays perpetrated by the American Christian community? What really matters to him?
And, hey, the guy brings up a great point: Who says that "evil" is so narrow as to include only those things which are conscious choices at this moment? The Bible has no such notion of evil. In the Bible, evil is even more dangerous in its unconscious forms than in the obvious, very self-conscious decisions. Who says that evil is so superficial a thing that I have the power to kill it this very moment by avoiding conscious evil decisions in the future?
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What do you mean by attraction? An innocent appreciation for something? A fleeting, desirable thought? An overall 'sense' of desire? A constant appeal toward something?
Practicing self-control with our bodies is only one battle in the war. What about our thoughts and our inclinations? I think scripture is pretty clear that even those are to be transformed into His likeness, which not only requires self-discipline, but God's intervening grace. That is why the psalmist prays, "Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting."
If the attraction is toward something sinful, then it is not from God, but is a lust of the flesh (1 John 2:16) and we are told to purify ourselves from that (Colossians 3:5).
Simply not practicing the sin of homosexuality (which I know is hardly 'simple') is a first step in total transformation. A transformation that becomes more and more refined, dealing with deeper 'layers' of ourselves, for lack of a better term at the moment. Is it possible for that person to lose all attraction to the same gender and, even moreso, develop disgust for that kind of attraction? I would say yes and I will add that it should be the goal.
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has everyone ignored the actuall verses about homosexuality being wrong? they do exist. i have to go to bed right now, but if you want i'll look them up tomorow.
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Originally Posted by 0000 How do we know that it is a lifestyle they choose?
Because there is evidence and have been cases where straight people turn gay and gay people turn straight.
Originally Posted by Mara's Mom What do you mean by attraction? An innocent appreciation for something? A fleeting, desirable thought? An overall 'sense' of desire? A constant appeal toward something?
I mean a romantic and sexual chemistry.
Originally Posted by irtrogdor has everyone ignored the actuall verses about homosexuality being wrong? they do exist. i have to go to bed right now, but if you want i'll look them up tomorow. Yea I know them. But my question at hand deals with a generic person who doesn't believe in the Bible.
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Originally Posted by 0000 But my question at hand deals with a generic person who doesn't believe in the Bible. Pardon me for taking this a bit off topic, but I don't believe anyone should be addressing an unbeliever's homosexuality or homosexual attractions. They need a Saviour to save them from their sinful condition, not from specific sins. That comes later. It's called sanctification.
EDIT: As for your specific question, there are no clever arguments. I think Scripture makes it very clear. It really doesn't matter if a person doesn't believe the Bible. Truth is Truth.
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Note: When you notice your quotes are messed up, please try to fix them. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by 0000 How do we know that it is a lifestyle they choose?
There is a distinction between sexual identity and sexual orientation. How one identifies (typically with the binary gay or straight) is a choice. Indeed the whole idea of sexual identity is a social contruct. The attractions or desires one may have is more grounded in objective reality. Of course this predisposition toward certain sexual behaviors (whether it be the product of nature or nuture) can be suppressed or ignored. Which is obvious since almost all humans have a sex drive yet many manage to be celibate.
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Originally Posted by Stealth3si Yea I know them. But my question at hand deals with a generic person who doesn't believe in the Bible.
Then you will never convince them that it is wrong. I mean, there is no reason for them to stop if they don't believe in Christianity apart I guess from the usual secular reasons not to have sex before marriage. Instead of going out and telling people that they are wrong for doing this and that we should be pointing them towards Christ. When you talk to homosexual people just don't even mention homosexuality and treat them like every other sinner out there.
However, Paul says we must call each other (as Christians) out on our sins. So, if you are reasoning with another Christian then yes, you should tell them that their lifestyle is not Biblical
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Originally Posted by Stealth3si We know God forbids homosexuality and that it is a lifestyle that we choose to live by or not but how do you reason with a homosexual person that their attraction is forbidden by God when attraction isn't a choice?
Who says their attraction isn't a choice?