Question:
It has been a long while since I've been on the forums at CGR. I've always enjoyed the community of believers here and the spirit for seeking and discussing the truth.
This thread has two purposes.
1) I would like to discuss the trend of so many young people walking away from the church/Christian spirituality upon graduation. Why is this happening (I have my theories) and what can be done to build up the body of Christ (note - I specifically stated Body of Christ, not the local church).
2) What resources are out there discussing this very issue? I am familiar with Barna, I've read many books on the emerging culture, I've studied many articles, but I am always looking for more resources to help paint an accurate picture of these trends. I don't sense one book or person can accurately describe the makeup and trends of an entire generation.
My context: I am a pastor who oversees the student ministry at our church. One of my deepest desires as a pastor is to see our young people embrace a life-long journey with Christ and not just have a few cool spiritual experiences in High School and then walk away from Christ all together. We are a progressive student ministry, which means we do some uncoventional things (like specific intergenerational programs/activities, etc). We are not a perfect church and or ministry but we desire to be God honoring in all that we do.
Thanks! I look forward to the discussion!
Answer:
Back in November, there was an article on the subject in my school's newspaper. Check it out.
http://media.www.loyolamaroon.com/me...-2450817.shtml
I'm still deciding how exactly I want to reply.
Answer:
Originally Posted by BIGFATJAM 1) I would like to discuss the trend of so many young people walking away from the church/Christian spirituality upon graduation. Why is this happening (I have my theories) and what can be done to build up the body of Christ (note - I specifically stated Body of Christ, not the local church).
The reason why this happens is probably unique to every person but maybe, as someone in the middle of this, I can share some light. I went to a private Christian highschool (I assume when you say graduation you're talking about high school graduation) and while I was there I got inolved in a number of Christian groups and ministries and in some of these I had a leadership role. In these roles though I always felt I had to appear to be a solid rock Christian and because of this I began learn how to act out being a Christian even when I wasn't feeling it. Ironically, I became so good at the acting that it was when I felt the most distant from God/lacked any kind of prayer or devotional life that people would comment 'you're such a solid Christian' or 'I wish I could believe like you do'. This act became normal and I kept it up when I was with friends as well as with my leadership roles.
So, I graduate high school and move onto a secular college.
When I got to college I found that I didn't have to act anymore and I began to wonder if my belief in high school was all just an act. I began to wonder what was real and from God and what was just conjured up by myself to please others. The second thing that I faced was that I no longer hadto be a Christian to get by socially (like in high school), in fact, things looked better if I wasn't a Christian. I'd have more respect, more friends, more good times if I wasn't a Christian. Basically what I'm trying to say is that in high school I wore my Christianity as if it were a fashion trend. To fit in, I needed God so I 'became' a solid rock Christian. When I went to university, the main reason why I needed God in high school was taken away, so I didn't need God.
Now, I understand that not everyone goes to a Christian high school but these kids you are talking about, they probably go to youth group, summer camp, sunday school, church retreats, etc. and to fit in there they will go through the same thing I did.
What can you do as a pastor? Just encourage people to be real.
Answer:
Originally Posted by OneHope What can you do as a pastor? Just encourage people to be real. Indeed...
I know that for alot of students, there are a few reasons they drop out of church after high school. One is that their church does not have any sort of support for congregants in the 18-29 age bracket. We expect our students to graduate high school and become 40 year olds. This isn't a criticism of traditional church services, but simply that after 4-6 years of high energy youth group designed to draw in teens, we say, "ok...it's over now, go back to the traditional service".
the other thing is that our youth groups tend to be VERY evangelism based. This isn't bad in itself as we are told to spread the gospel, but it often leaves us with 18 year olds who have been Christians for 15 years and are still spiritual infants because they've never progressed beyond "Jesus loves me and died for me." Because of this, once they disconnect and get to a point where they can make their own decisions they find that their parent's generation failed to give them any spiritual depth. Ultimately they start to view church as "their parents thing" because they never made a deep connection with it and made church their own thing.
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve the other thing is that our youth groups tend to be VERY evangelism based. This isn't bad in itself as we are told to spread the gospel, but it often leaves us with 18 year olds who have been Christians for 15 years and are still spiritual infants because they've never progressed beyond "Jesus loves me and died for me." Because of this, once they disconnect and get to a point where they can make their own decisions they find that their parent's generation failed to give them any spiritual depth. Ultimately they start to view church as "their parents thing" because they never made a deep connection with it and made church their own thing. I think that is key.
The evangelical church is so focused on evangelism that it has completely forgotten about discipleship. So when the high schoolers leave their comfortable church and move out on their own, they only have a young, immature faith that has only ever known a shallow, hollow Christianity and that baby Christian has to go out into a world that is highly critical of Christianity. Then when the simple, pat answers that the baby Christian has been fed in their church don't work, they have no where to go.
Answer:
Originally Posted by thesteve I know that for alot of students, there are a few reasons they drop out of church after high school. One is that their church does not have any sort of support for congregants in the 18-29 age bracket. We expect our students to graduate high school and become 40 year olds. This isn't a criticism of traditional church services, but simply that after 4-6 years of high energy youth group designed to draw in teens, we say, "ok...it's over now, go back to the traditional service".
I agree with your observation here and I feel this is one of the biggest mistakes the church has made, that being, generational segregation. Many students go through a youth ministry and never experience the breadth, beauty, and struggles of being part of the entire church body. All they know is youth ministry and upon graduating high school they look for other ministries that replicate their student ministry experience in high school. If they don't find it they stop attending.
the other thing is that our youth groups tend to be VERY evangelism based. This isn't bad in itself as we are told to spread the gospel, but it often leaves us with 18 year olds who have been Christians for 15 years and are still spiritual infants because they've never progressed beyond "Jesus loves me and died for me." Because of this, once they disconnect and get to a point where they can make their own decisions they find that their parent's generation failed to give them any spiritual depth. Ultimately they start to view church as "their parents thing" because they never made a deep connection with it and made church their own thing.
Good point. We need student ministries/churches that are committed to making disciples who are rooted deeply in God's word and committed to an ever-continuing growing relationship with Christ.
Answer:
Ok, so what can we do, as churches/faith communities, to engage this generation (20's) with the Gospel of Christ? If you've seen the statistics Christianity is on a huge decline in America. If churches cannot retain and engage their own youth, then how can they be relevant to this generation. We can't afford not to ask these questions and do something about it.
How can student ministries help change this trend? How can the church as a whole change this trend.
Thanks to those who have chimed in on the discussion so far! I'm enjoying the conversation!
Answer:
"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. It is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe."
The Gospel, the Gospel, the Gospel. That's how to engage the culture. The Gospel is the truth and it is the power. David Wells has some wonderful critiques of evangelicalism in this culture in his four-part series, No Place for Truth, God in the Wasteland, Losing Our Virtue, and Above All Earthly Pow'rs.
Also, the Desiring God National Conference in 2006 was titled the Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World. Tim Keller had a lecture dealing with Christ and the Gospel which was absolutely fabulous. David Wells attended that as well and gave the keynote sermon. I would recommend getting your hands on some of the DG stuff. David Wells would be good if you're interested in some really heavy reading.
Stay faithful and let God do the converting.
Answer:
Originally Posted by joshaber I think that is key.
The evangelical church is so focused on evangelism that it has completely forgotten about discipleship. So when the high schoolers leave their comfortable church and move out on their own, they only have a young, immature faith that has only ever known a shallow, hollow Christianity and that baby Christian has to go out into a world that is highly critical of Christianity. Then when the simple, pat answers that the baby Christian has been fed in their church don't work, they have no where to go.
Originally Posted by BIGFATJAM I agree with your observation here and I feel this is one of the biggest mistakes the church has made, that being, generational segregation. Many students go through a youth ministry and never experience the breadth, beauty, and struggles of being part of the entire church body. All they know is youth ministry and upon graduating high school they look for other ministries that replicate their student ministry experience in high school. If they don't find it they stop attending. I think it is a combination of what you too said. There is little true discipleship in the church. How many churches have a mentoring program, where you match people together so that a mentor can help a protoge mature in their faith? Youth are often spoon fed but they are never taught to feed themselves. This is what discipleship is for, this is what Christ did. I've been studying discipleship a lot lately. I recommend Dallas Willard because he focuses on this. Dietrich Bonhoeffer's Cost of Discipleship is also great. I think we need more of the older generation reaching down to the younger generations to build dedicated followers of Christ.
Answer:
Originally Posted by BIGFATJAM It has been a long while since I've been on the forums at CGR. I've always enjoyed the community of believers here and the spirit for seeking and discussing the truth.
This thread has two purposes.
1) I would like to discuss the trend of so many young people walking away from the church/Christian spirituality upon graduation. Why is this happening (I have my theories) and what can be done to build up the body of Christ (note - I specifically stated Body of Christ, not the local church).
2) What resources are out there discussing this very issue? I am familiar with Barna, I've read many books on the emerging culture, I've studied many articles, but I am always looking for more resources to help paint an accurate picture of these trends. I don't sense one book or person can accurately describe the makeup and trends of an entire generation.
My context: I am a pastor who oversees the student ministry at our church. One of my deepest desires as a pastor is to see our young people embrace a life-long journey with Christ and not just have a few cool spiritual experiences in High School and then walk away from Christ all together. We are a progressive student ministry, which means we do some uncoventional things (like specific intergenerational programs/activities, etc). We are not a perfect church and or ministry but we desire to be God honoring in all that we do.
Thanks! I look forward to the discussion! People will leave the church if it is merely something they go to. They will not leave if it is who they are.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Chrysostom People will leave the church if it is merely something they go to. They will not leave if it is who they are.
Ok, we can play the symantics game here . To clarify then I'm obviously referring the assembly of believers, which Scripture states we are not to abandon. Many young people who have made a profession of faith in Christ for their salvation in high school are abandoning the assembly of believers (loosely defined as faith communities) once graduating. Whether they've stopped being the church or were ever really part of the church (as in Universal church/true Christians) is not my place (nor anyone's but Christ's) to judge. All I know is that many young people across the country are leaving the assembly of believers and Christians in America can't afford to just sit around and not respond.
Still enjoying the discussion.
Answer:
Originally Posted by BIGFATJAM Ok, we can play the symantics game here . To clarify then I'm obviously referring the assembly of believers, which Scripture states we are not to abandon. Many young people who have made a profession of faith in Christ for their salvation in high school are abandoning the assembly of believers (loosely defined as faith communities) once graduating. Whether they've stopped being the church or were ever really part of the church (as in Universal church/true Christians) is not my place (nor anyone's but Christ's) to judge. All I know is that many young people across the country are leaving the assembly of believers and Christians in America can't afford to just sit around and not respond.
Still enjoying the discussion. Sorry if it seemed like I was playing semantics. I wasn't. And I'm not talking about membership in an "invisible church" or anything like that. What I mean is, What am I doing here in church? Most youth are going to evangelistic rallies, singing songs they enjoy to sing, playing some fun games, and hanging out with friends. In other words, I "go to church" as basically another form of entertainment in my life, on top of my iPod and my favorite TV shows.
And of course, once the children graduate high school and go on to college none of them leave behind their iPods or Xanga or MySpace, but they all leave the church behind. Why? Because who they really are is people interested in the entertainment of the iPod or the community of MySpace. They would "go to church" as just a subset of these goals, of the narratives that already dominated their lives.
But if being a Christian is anything then it entails a totally new identity, a totally new "who you are." Baptism, for instance, is clearly a naming ceremony; I place a new name on your forehead, baptizing you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. As one baptismal liturgy goes, "I kill you in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost." As Paul writes, "I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me." If someone is going to be a Christian, if someone is not just going to frequent a fun youth meeting once a week plus the occasional conference for a "spiritual high," then he must die to his current world and live in a new one. He must be a "new creation" in Christ.
Why do they leave the church but not the iPod? Because the church is merely somewhere they go, but the iPod is part of who they are. When they claim to become "Christians," the dominant narratives like entertainment are not killed. They do not die to the world. They do not begin understanding the world in terms of the story of Jesus -- birth, ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and second coming -- much less the larger story of the Bible. They do not understand the sweep of history in terms of God's redemptive plan, nor their identities in terms of what God is doing in Christ by the Spirit with the Word through the Church.
Instead they understand the sweep of history in terms of their own lives at best (Who am I going to go out with? What will I do this weekend? What college am I going to?) or the grand secular narratives at worst (Get rich or die trying. Celebrity gossip. The progress of humanity to utopia through scientific advancement.).
They will leave the church as long as it is something they merely go to, just a part of life that they enjoy, like Burger King or the Bud Light Presents commercials. But if the church is something that they are then they will remain. And a sappy, shallow, flimsy Christianity can only be something you go to, never something you are.
Answer:
Thanks John for your more elaborate and insightful take on current church trends. I agree with much of what you wrote...American Christianity (and not just youth ministry, IMHO, but the entire church as a whole) has become entertainment/consumer based. You go, you receive, you feel better/challenged, and when you leave you leave your spirituality at the door of the church until the next church function. Statistically this assumption is supported since trends between Christians and non-Christians are basically identical in many areas. Just check out www.barna.org
Another pastor on our church staff recently returned from a very large international mission conference. It was a gathering of many missionaries from around the world, specifically East Asia. Their take, in short, of the American Christian church -- its a joke. It's all consumer based where millions are spent on programs, resources and church buildings and yet it is declining and loosing its effectiveness. The American Church needs to wake up.
Answer:
Well, First let me give you my background. I'm a recent college graduate I'm now teaching at a private christian school. When I was in highschool (public) I was president of the Christian Student Organization on campus.
I know exactly what you are talking about. I got to see first hand the previous leaders of the Christian Group I ran, walk away from God. The Guy that was president before me now in a manger at a nightclub and has become openly bi-sexual. It is a sad fact. I recently attended the Association of Christians Schools International Conference (ACSI) in Dallas, Texas. There I heard a good speaker who presented the fact that 50% of high school students from both public and private schools will walk away from their faith in less than a year.
This same speaker presented the idea that we need our students to know the true freedom that comes in following Christ in what he called the "Freedom Road". That is making students realize that there is a fine balance between legalism and denying God (SIN). Students need to know that sin is bad, and leads to destruction. However, they need to know that anyone can sin it is a choice we have. Sin is fun, lets face it but soon that fun will end and it the reality of it will set in. He went on to say he lets his students know that they can sin...but sin has consequences. Then he talked about legalism.
We (leaders of churches, parents, teachers, etc. ) have said that things are wrong, such as drinking, sleeping around, etc. Even though we have warned our youth about the dangers of sin, we often forget to provide a scriptural base accompanied by a real like experience (like some one giving there testimony). We need to let our youth know that we have grace and we are free to life for Christ. We need to avoid Sin, and we also must not be so legalistic (I know some one is going to take this the wrong way but I'm not talking about freedom to sin) that legalism becomes a trap. That we are so afraid of the temptation of sin that when we do sin we are devastated. Remember we are not sinless only Jesus was. We need to equip today's youth with the truth that sin is unfullfilling and leaves us empty.
Well, I hope that made sense.
Also, as a college student who was very actively involved in on campus evangelism. I talked with many college students who walked away from their faith, the number one reason that I was given was "my friends aren't there, I used to have great friends in my youth group" So I think sometime the social aspect holds our youth groups together. But after graduation that social network is scattered so many of your youth don't feel welcomed at in there new college settings. However if you know college life, you'd see where they would meet this social need---- At the clubs, wild college parties, etc. Houses of Sin!
Hope this gave you some insight.
Answer:
Christians are not and cannot be defined as "people who avoid sin." If our message can be summarized as "And this is why you should not sin" or "And this is why you should be a moral person," then our Gospel is sub-Christian. Indeed, as Luther said, "Sin boldly"!!
If we define ourselves against somebody else, whether that somebody is an actual person ("the homosexuals," "the liberals") or just an idea ("teen drinkers," "sinners"), then we have nothing worth saying to youth and they might as well leave. But instead we have Gospel -- good news -- which defines itself by life in God's Christ, rather than by the fact that we are the opposite of those people.
If we walk around telling youth "stop sinning!" then church is just a moralistic, legalistic weight whose nagging burdens them. But if we talk about what God has done and is doing in Christ by the Spirit then we have something worth saying.