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This the best forum that I knew to stick this in. This isn't light enough for General Discussion, and doesn't really run along the lines of theological discussion. I didn't write this, so I'm providing the link to it instead of copying it in here, and I urge everyone to read over this and not to just sit back and think, "Yeah, that's definitely a problem here in America," but to consider that this may be talking about them. It is the truth that it takes more than quoting a prayer to truly be saved.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/mediapdf/52906154239.pdf
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There was a thread in theology discussing that sermon.
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Id rank it as one of the 20 most scriptureless, bassless, worst sermons I have ever heard. If the preacher wasn't invited back, perhaps it was due to the fact that he preached a sermon full of lies and insults. 99% of people don't believe they are Christians. In fact, I dare say there are a greater percentage of Sikhs alone around me than he allows for. Bearing in mind the large proportion of atheists and other faiths out there... I would wager a guess that more than 5% of America believes in reincarnation based on my personal contacts. Add in Islam, etc...
And how dare he say that people would be excommunicated who he didn't know. I am kind of a rough and tumble guy. I am sure I would immediately have been judged by him as excommunication material based on the attitude that conveyed. Thats not conviction, thats, my leather jacket tore today so I was walking around in a torn leather jacket and old worn jeans. He also threw in doses of baptist seperationism.
My background is dotted with baptist affiliation and frankly, there is less special about being a baptist than preachers claim. This sort of isolationist mentality is dangerous and foolhardy.
In short, I think it is a lame attempt at stirring up people to fight a culture instead of attempting to make a difference where they are.
It bears in my mind a stunning similarity to fascism actually.
But most of all it reminds me of the story Jesus told of the Pharisee and the Publican. The sermon giver sounding much like the Pharisee.
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Well, I'm totally saved but it's more in that movie kind of way, so I guess not for real.
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Bill, you ignorant slut.
Well not really - I just wanted to do a little "point/counterpoint" here. I am left with a few questions regarding this sermon.
1) It seems like Paul is advocating perfectionism - which is out of line with his "Reformed" theology. Historic Reformed theology clearly lays out that people will backslide, that there will always be a mixture of truth and error...etc.
2) It also seems like Paul advocates preparationism - meaning that we must repent before we come to Jesus. Again, if he is claiming to be "Reformed" he isn't. I scanned the sermon rather than reading it closely, so if I'm wrong it is my bad.
3) Paul's critique of American Christianity is, at its core, very true and needs to be said in many ways. His way happens to be in the "culture war", hyped-up, over the top "old skool preacher" way. I disagree with his method of communication - as well as his very careless generalizations.
4) Paul seems to reside orthodoxy and the test of orthodoxy in himself. Not cool.
5) The silly exclusivist, reductionist hyper-baptistic crap - like Bill said - is a joke.
6) I wonder where he preached this sermon - I've closed the window now and can't go look...but...the fact is that in a lot of youth group culture there isn't real discipleship and I don't think any of us would deny that American Christianity is by and larged effed up. But I don't think that making Paul Pope really solves the problem.
In the end, I could just quote Bill's last line. A lot what Paul was saying is *true*, but what true things he is saying comes off as all light with no heat. And finger-waggling preaching is just usually uncalled for - and from what I see by googling him...that's all he does.
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What I agreed with:
1) American Christianity is struggling
2) I liked the semi-truck analogy
What I disagreed with:
1) His methodology
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the PDF wouldn't open for me...is this another Paul Washer (I think that's his name) sermon? The guy that had the audio sermon titled "I've been banned from this Baptist Church after giving this sermon at a youth rally" (or something to that effect).
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Originally Posted by thesteve the PDF wouldn't open for me...is this another Paul Washer (I think that's his name) sermon? The guy that had the audio sermon titled "I've been banned from this Baptist Church after giving this sermon at a youth rally" (or something to that effect).
The very same.
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Originally Posted by Athanasius The very same. Ah...yeah...I remember some rather lengthy discussion on him on CGR before. I think you and BSPE have pretty much cover my opinion on it though.
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*sigh* My whole point of having this in the devotional forum in the first place was hoping that someone would read it and seriously think about their position with Christ instead of dissecting the thing.
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Originally Posted by Paul Washer "I want you to know that the greatest heresy in the American evangelical and protestant church is
that, if you pray and ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart, He will definitely come in. You
will not find that in any place in Scripture."
Well, He'll eat and talk with you, and I assume the conversation would be about saving you if you weren't already saved. He's already knocking on your door:
Scripture:
Revelation 3:
20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
and if you knock on God's door and keep asking for salvation:
Scripture:
Matthew 7:7-10
Ask, Seek, Knock
7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
Originally Posted by Jenacen *sigh* My whole point of having this in the devotional forum in the first place was hoping that someone would read it and seriously think about their position with Christ instead of dissecting the thing.
Lol, I didn't read the whole thing yet, but since it's not really about the sermon but the question, 'are you saved', I'll say yes.
How do I know? Because I keep asking, God, I hope it's God, will not let me sit still.
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Originally Posted by Athanasius 5) The silly exclusivist, reductionist hyper-baptistic crap - like Bill said - is a joke. By that, do you mean the parts where he says things like "there are several tests outlined in the Gospels, and if you pass these tests you are saved", and he backed up himself with things in John?
(psst: should you be interested, here is the original thread).
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I'm tempted to make an official rebuttal of this sermon.
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Originally Posted by Dice I'm tempted to make an official rebuttal of this sermon. I would be very interested to hear it!
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I believe I remember hearing this sermon at one point when I was still listening to "Way Of The Master" ministries. Those guys really promoted Paul Washer if I recall correctly. His sermon seems to be turning into a big thing these days. The biggest problem I've seen in it is that he runs all over the place, and it's based more on trying to shock people than anything. At first he seems extremely Calvinistic, then before you know it, he sounds like he's saying salvation requires sinless perfection.
As a listener I might be given the impression that if I were to put my trust in Jesus for salvation, it's more of a gamble than anything - He might decide to give it to me, then again - He might not. I don't see any indication of anything like that in the Bible, although I do see numerous occurrences of "whosoever seeks will find", and "whosoever believes in Him shall not perish".
Also, what he was saying about not looking like the world... what on earth does he mean. What is a Christian supposed to look like? How can you tell if a person is worldly just by looking at them?
About this whole thing how he supposedly found 90-odd % of the people in his hometown were Christians - was he actually trying to make a point, or just sound bytes?
That's just a few thoughts. I hope somebody finds something useful in there somewhere.