Question:
Who knows what all is taught and advocated at the Battlecry/Aquire the Fire
rallies?
Who agrees or disagree with what is taught?
Does anyone know anything about Ron Luce?
Anybody agree or disagree with what he teaches?
I'm thinking about going to Battlecry in S.F. in march but I'm just still not sure about it. So I was wondering what you guys think about it.
What do y'all think?
any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Answer:
Originally Posted by cngp90 Who knows what all is taught and advocated at the Battlecry/Aquire the Fire rallies? I think that I can answer this; I went to one two weeks ago (it was a family favor). In short: they teach that teens should go to "all out war" (their phrase) with culture.

Who agrees or disagree with what is taught? I heartily disagree. They are sincere, but misguided; they fail to emphasize that our struggle is not against flesh and blood, and so a lot of kids leave the events geared up to [literally] storm the streets outside of MTV studios.

I also felt a little uncomfortable when Ron Luce had the crowd chanting, "Tell us what to do! Tell us what to do!"

Does anyone know anything about Ron Luce? He writes a lot of books, flies in to every ATF/BattleCry event and teaches at least one session, and makes about $100,000 a year. He teaches a hyper-Culture war geared toward teenagers.

Anybody agree or disagree with what he teaches? He basically teaches what his organization teaches.
I'm thinking about going to Battlecry in S.F. in march but I'm just still not sure about it. So I was wondering what you guys think about it.
What do y'all think? If you decide to go, I urge you to take everything with a grain of salt. A lot of what they say is true, but they tend to rely on a lot of hype. A lot.
Answer:
I will get active. I will answer his call. I will save this generation.
Here is their Teenage Bill of Rights:
We, a new generation of young Americans, in order to protect the heritage of our forefathers and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and generations to come, do affirm and pledge this declaration:
When character and morality are uncommon qualities,
When corporations and marketers seek to profit from our destruction,
When pop culture icons do not represent our values,
When Judeo-Christian beliefs are labeled as intolerant,
When activists seek to remove God from our schools,
When truth is deemed relative and unknowable,

It is necessary for us, the emerging generation of young Americans, to stand for what is right and reclaim the values that have made our nation great. We call our nation to a higher standard, a lifestyle based
not on convenience, but on character,
not on what is easy, but on what is excellent,
not on what feels good, but on what is good,
not on popularity, but on principle,
not on what is tempting, but on what is true.
We, as young Americans, assert our right to determine our future and the future of our great nation. We hold these truths as our God-given rights, and we embrace them with our hearts and our lives:
We recognize that God, our Creator, is the source of all truth.
We will live with honor, always striving to do the right thing, even when it is unpopular. We will be honest and truthful in matters large and small, regardless of the consequences.
We will take responsibility for our actions, and not point to governments, schools, celebrities, parents, or friends to justify our wrong decisions.
We recognize that we are responsible for our mistakes. We will pursue purity throughout our lives.
We will not be seduced by a fabricated idea of sex and love.
We will save our bodies and hearts for our future spouses, and once married we commit to pursue faithful and enduring relationships.
We will see through the lies of drugs and alcohol and refuse to let any chemical influence our thinking or destroy our lives.
We will respect the authorities placed in our lives, even though some may not live as honorably as they should.
We will honor our parents, teachers, and other leaders.
We will reach out with compassion to the hurting and less fortunate, both in our society and around the world.
We refuse to be absorbed with our own comforts and desires.
We recognize the value of each life, whether born or unborn, and we seek to protect those who are unable to protect themselves.
We will do our best to represent and communicate our Creator to our peers, leaders, and society as a whole.
We will work to see that every person has the opportunity to see and hear about the true nature of our God.
In signing, we commit to pursue a life that exemplifies these standards.
We refuse to sit idly by and witness the destruction of our generation.
With God's help, we envision a bright and prosperous future for the nation we love. So what we've learned is:
1. They believe in a Creator.
2. They promise to be moral.
3. They are going to be good Americans.
From where I'm sitting, this screams "Deist," certainly not "Christian."
Similarly, I would warn you that it is extremely individualistic.
Answer:
Thank you, guys. That helps a ton.
So basically what you have is a bunch of teens who are hyped up who are gonna go out and change the world by their own power and goodness more or less?
is that what you're saying?
About taking it with a grain of salt, that's what my dad said about it too so yah if I go that is definitely what I'll be doing.
I'll keep praying about it, and any other comments on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Answer:
Originally Posted by John Roberson
From where I'm sitting, this screams "Deist," certainly not "Christian."
The defense of "Judeo-Christian beliefs" isn't Christian? Odd.
I know this group quite well, as I've had tooooons of friends go through. Some in influential positions. There are different levels of people within this group. There is the hyper group, the down to earth group, and the teen-mania-ruined-me group.
They're certainly bible believing Christians, but yes their show is very hyped up.
Answer:
Ron Luce is dangerously Arminian in his theology. He puts salvation so far onto the shoulders of man that he uses hype to pressure teenagers into converting and guilt to get leaders to evangelize teenagers.
Here are some samples from his book on youth ministry.

God is trusting you with the next generation. If you don't do your job, in a few years your pastor won't have a job because the number of teens entering adulthood and joining the ranks of the unchurched will continue to escalte. (Revolution YM p.22)
So instead of dealing with your own sin issues, you will just let kids you haven't reached go to Hell? (p. 115)

It's pretty clear that he believes that if youth pastors don't do their job then people are going to go to Hell. He's using guilt to motivate leaders to verse God. There is no trust in God's sovreignty to bring people to himself. Evangelism is all about how we can get people to make decisions.
There was another quote, which I was unable to find, where he said that youth pastors need to make sure they're doing their job to prevent teenagers from losing their salvation. Thus, the job of maintaining salvation is up to pastors and individuals rather than the Holy Spirit.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Cadence The defense of "Judeo-Christian beliefs" isn't Christian? Odd. But in they never define what that is. Many 18th century deists would affirm Judeo-Christan beliefs and values. They were still deists and not Christians. And John's point wasn't that they aren't Christian, but that their Bill of Rights is far more deistic, Americanistic, and moralistic than Biblical.
Answer:
Originally Posted by cngp90 Thank you, guys. That helps a ton.
So basically what you have is a bunch of teens who are hyped up who are gonna go out and change the world by their own power and goodness more or less?
is that what you're saying?
About taking it with a grain of salt, that's what my dad said about it too so yah if I go that is definitely what I'll be doing.
I'll keep praying about it, and any other comments on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
I heartily disagree. Strongly, definitely disagree. Well...ya take it with a grain of salt...but I don't think neccisarily misguided. (not responding to what you said cngp, just the thread in general).
I went there last year and what was actually tought was 'grab hold of Jesus & don't let go'. Anything wrong with that? I hope not.
They talked about not being Christians who sit around and say they're Christians but don't take action and urge teens to take action for what they believe is wrong. NOT saying doing it with their own power. I'm not sure where that came from.
I went to the Detroit Battlecry last Spring. It was lifechanging for many in my youth group and others we brought with us. I believe over 3,000 people went down to accept Christ. Many that we had drug along with our youth group did so and are still sticking with it. It wasn't just a peer pressure decision, it was amazing. The spirit of God was definitely there and the teaching was awesome. Maybe not what people are used to hearing, it was pretty blunt, but needed. As a teen (17) I know other teens, they need it put bluntly, no beating around the bush.
I'm going to Detroit again in April along with a couple hundred teens from our small area (That's a crazy amount of teens from northern michigan!).
Maybe it's hyped up a bit...but it sure beats having teens not doing anything.
Our youth group and church hasn't been the same since last year. I actually can't wait to go this year, and mainly for the speaking. I know many friends that literally had their lives changed from that event, and it sure helped me.
So I'd encourage you to go, and take anyone with you that you can. Sure take it with a grain of salt, but I personally wouldn't be worried too much about what Ron Luce is teaching. I've talked to him personally and read a few of his books...very good.
Answer:
Originally Posted by Sean It's pretty clear that he believes that if youth pastors don't do their job then people are going to go to Hell. He's using guilt to motivate leaders to verse God. There is no trust in God's sovreignty to bring people to himself. Evangelism is all about how we can get people to make decisions.
How is that unbiblical...If no-one reaches out to these people and no-one ever tells them about Christ then...ya they're going to Hell in most cases.
Again, blunt, but true.
Answer:
Originally Posted by wjarmusch How is that unbiblical...If no-one reaches out to these people and no-one ever tells them about Christ then...ya they're going to Hell in most cases.
Again, blunt, but true.
See bold(my bold):
Originally Posted by Sean It's pretty clear that he believes that if youth pastors don't do their job then people are going to go to Hell. He's using guilt to motivate leaders to verse God. There is no trust in God's sovreignty to bring people to himself. Evangelism is all about how we can get people to make decisions.
Answer:
Originally Posted by wjarmusch How is that unbiblical... Can you supply a single passage demonstrating that it is biblical?
If no-one reaches out to these people and no-one ever tells them about Christ then...ya they're going to Hell in most cases.
Again, blunt, but true. God is sovereign over man's salvation. God doesn't NEED us to spread the gospel. He chooses to allow us to be apart of the process. However, if God has elected someone, they're going to be saved regardless of if we go out or not. It's not our actions that save people or cause them to respond with faith.
Answer:
Originally Posted by wjarmusch I went there last year and what was actually tought was 'grab hold of Jesus & don't let go'. Anything wrong with that? I hope not. The emphasis should be on Him holding onto you rather than you holding onto Him. The emphasis should never be on our works.
Answer:
Originally Posted by wjarmusch I heartily disagree. Strongly, definitely disagree. Well...ya take it with a grain of salt...but I don't think neccisarily misguided. (not responding to what you said cngp, just the thread in general).
I went there last year and what was actually tought was 'grab hold of Jesus & don't let go'. Anything wrong with that? I hope not.
They talked about not being Christians who sit around and say they're Christians but don't take action and urge teens to take action for what they believe is wrong. NOT saying doing it with their own power. I'm not sure where that came from.
I went to the Detroit Battlecry last Spring. It was lifechanging for many in my youth group and others we brought with us. I believe over 3,000 people went down to accept Christ. Many that we had drug along with our youth group did so and are still sticking with it. It wasn't just a peer pressure decision, it was amazing. The spirit of God was definitely there and the teaching was awesome. Maybe not what people are used to hearing, it was pretty blunt, but needed. As a teen (17) I know other teens, they need it put bluntly, no beating around the bush.
I'm going to Detroit again in April along with a couple hundred teens from our small area (That's a crazy amount of teens from northern michigan!).
Maybe it's hyped up a bit...but it sure beats having teens not doing anything.
Our youth group and church hasn't been the same since last year. I actually can't wait to go this year, and mainly for the speaking. I know many friends that literally had their lives changed from that event, and it sure helped me.
So I'd encourage you to go, and take anyone with you that you can. Sure take it with a grain of salt, but I personally wouldn't be worried too much about what Ron Luce is teaching. I've talked to him personally and read a few of his books...very good. well Jesus isn't mentioned once in their bill of rights but man is, so it is completely man-centered and not Christ-centered. I like how they preach the thought of "all out war" but not against culture. the war is against sin. If he tought teens to put as much passion into pursuit of and following Christ and sharing his greatness, there would be a much greater impact on culture.
Answer:
[We] refuse to let any chemical influence our thinking... Yay! No more caffeine!
Answer:
Originally Posted by bobthecockroach Yay! No more caffeine!
Or helpful medicine...